posted by Sam Richards
Watch this video and read the text. And while you’re doing so, think about two things:
1. For those of you who think you “know” when someone is LGBT…would you ever think that Darren Manzella is gay?
2. A recent report from military officials investigating whether having LGBT soldiers on a unit “weakens morale” decidedly determined that it does not and that the DADT policy should be abandoned.
The whole concept of the United States military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on homosexuality seems like it could use a little update nowadays. What kind of way is that to run a government agency?
The idea that a person, be it a gay man or lesbian woman, should have to hide their own sexual identity while serving in the Army is ludicrous. It’s understandable to me if the person may be engaging in that kind of conduct while in the service, or if he/she is disrupting their military unit with inappropriate conduct, but to discharge a person based on their sexual orientation outside of the workplace doesn’t make sense.
Sam makes an interesting point in the rather short blog post on Darren Manzella, an openly gay soldier in the military who was honorably discharged for his “homosexual conduct admission” because of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. He asks if we can tell that Sergeant Manzella was a homosexual by looking at him and watching the video with him in it. Well if you ask me, I’d have no idea by looking and listening to Sgt. Manzella that he was gay.
Sam also said something that he said before in class in this blog post: that it’s been proven that gays in military units do not weaken morale among the unit. Sgt. Manzella even has some proof of this of his own.
After he became open about his sexuality within his unit, Manzella said that instead of driving the unit’s morale down, it actually boosted it. He said that once they knew of his orientation they started inviting him out more, including one of his coworkers even inviting himself and his boyfriend to her wedding.
Now, after hearing this, how can the Army believe that having openly gay people in the military will be a burden? In this case it’s quite obvious that it had the exact opposite effect.
In my opinion, if I was on the battlefield with a group of people every day, it wouldn’t matter to me if they were gay or straight. You live and die with these people. You work with them. What difference should their sexuality make?
The whole system is a bit jaded and outdated. I think it’s time that the government abolish the whole “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy altogether and get with the program. There are gay people out there who want to serve their country. Anyone who wants to do that is admirable, no matter their sexual orientation.
According to the CNN article, the Army has discharged over 13,000 soldiers for homosexual conduct. About 800 of them had skills that were “critical,” like engineering jobs, and it cost the Army over $200 million to train their replacements.
There you go America. Your tax dollars hard at work.
I’d like to start off by saying that I think this is a great post on Veterans Day. Honorable discharge or not, the entire nation owes a great deal of gratitude to Darren Manzella. He did what the majority of our youth either opted not to do or were too scared to do and served two terms overseas fighting for his country. I have no problem saying that if I had the opportunity to go over and fight in Iraq, I would turn it down in a heart beat because I would be terrified of what might happen. The nation’s policy of don’t ask don’t tell is absolutely absurd and I think that this case, which I’m sure is identical to the thirteen thousand other cases, is proof of why. First off, sexuality has no bearing on how much devotion a person can put on the line for their country. If a person, regardless of their sexuality, feels the need to fight, it should be their right. Now, I know some will say that they don’t care if homosexuals are in the military, but they just prefer not to know which of their peers is gay. Now it would be naïve to say that everyone in the military is comfortable being around homosexuals. There are obviously going to be those who prefer that they fight only with straight soldiers. However, as studies are now showing, we know that having homosexuals in the military does no bring down the morale of the troops. So while there are still going to be those opposed to having openly gay soldiers fighting with them, the majority of them don’t have any problem with it. With that being said, it seems as though it is only constitutional that they abandon don’t ask don’t tell. We live in a democratic society where the majority rules. We vote for our elected officials person with the most votes represents the people (minus the Electoral College, but that’s a debate for a whole different day). If the troops were to vote on this issue, it would likely pass to get rid of the policy. And besides, let’s say that Darren had come out to his platoon before his first tour and there was no don’t ask don’t tell in place. It was obvious that no one in his squad had a problem serving with him before he came out of the closet. Had they known up front that he was gay, would they have a completely different mindset about him, or would they just think of him as another soldier who would be fighting alongside them? My guess, by looking at the study results, is that they would have thought of him as just another one of the guys, and we would have one more brave soldier across the ocean fighting for our country.
Manzella's supervisor had reported him as having broken the law under "don't ask, don't tell," the 1993 policy that prohibits anyone who "demonstrate(s) a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts" from serving in the U.S. military. They investigated Manzella and did not find any proof of homosexuality. However, Darren still gets discharged for homosexual conduct. Since don't ask, don't tell was introduced, the military has discharged more than 13,000 lesbians, gays and bisexuals, according to the Service members Legal Defense Network. I find this appalling because these innocent brave soldiers have fought for our country, but do not get any honor for it. Instead the Army focused in on their sexual orientation and labels them, as being LGBT the reason for being discharged.
A 2005 government report found that about 800 of them had skills deemed "critical," such as engineering and linguistics, and that it cost the military about $200 million to recruit and train their replacements. The government waste so much money by discharging a LBGT soldier after spending money recruiting, educating and training a soldier. They are fully capable to doing what any straight person can do. What boggles my mind is that the government emphasizes of no discrimination towards sexual orientation, sex, and race etc. What matters are the physical, disciplined and dedicated capabilities a soldier has.
"The Army enforces the homosexual conduct policy because it is the law," he said. "The policy is not a military policy, and the Army has a policy because it is bound by current statute. If the law were potentially to change, the Army would change to enforce whatever the law may be." I think that the Don’t ask, don’t tell policy should be abolished because it is forcing LGB to hide their true identity. If their sexual orientation would ever be reveal, they get deployed. How is this possibly fair or constitutional? I believe any individual is willing to serve their own country should have the right to serve the country regardless of their sex preference. Their sexual orientation will not effect their performance nor it should effect other soldiers.
Soldiers should be able to express freely of who they are and not feel threaten that they will loose their ranking or get deployed. I feel that America has been dramatically progressing in the acceptance of homosexuality. Statistics show in class how much peoples views and opinions has changed just with in the last ten years. In the rate that we are going, the government will eventually get rid of “ Don’t ask, Don’t tell” policy soon. The fact that studies show that LBGT soldiers in the army does not “weaken morale” should say a thing or two. It shows that there are irrelevant arguments to support “don’t ask don’t tell” but just down right hypocritical.
I think that the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy in the Army is an absolutely ridiculous. For people to be discharged from the army for violating this policy is also completely uncalled for. These people are willingly fighting four our country, the country that is not even giving them equal rights and honoring them by being fair, and they are being kicked out. I don’t understand why it matters what someone's sexual orientation is in order for them to fight for the good of our country and to better other people lives. As a country we honor all those who fight for us and look up to these people with tremendous amounts of respect and that should not change just because they have a different sexual preference than we do. I think that what Darren Manzella talks about in the video, about how life is too short to be someone you aren’t and how you should live your life the way you want to be happy is important. It is sad that the Army is taking that away from him and others by not letting them be open about the people they love and asking them to hid away their feelings. Just looking at Darren Manzella I would never have been able to tell that he was homosexual but I don’t really believe that you can tell by looking at someone, what their sexual orientation is. However, I do realize that you can tell when they are open about it. They should not have to hid their significant other and be ashamed to go out in public or have people over their house so that they can hide the way that they live their lives. That is the way that we should be able to tell what someone's sexual orientation is, because they should express it in a way that they are proud to be the way that they are and proud to say the love the person they love, the same way that heterosexual people are proud to say they love someone. They should not have to hide it away in fear of being ridiculed or judged or fear of being unable to fight four the country. Im sure that there are so many people in the army like Darren Manzella that are hiding in fear of their sexual orientation. People who are afraid that if they come out and violate the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy, that they will no longer be able to be a part of the army and fight for things they believe in. How can we call ourselves a free country when people are not free to be open and to be married to the person they love despite their sex. The comic that Sam showed us in class the other day was something i really had never thought about before. The way that it stated that marriage was a sacred union between two people and than showed how people could get married drunk in vegas, or marry for money, or power but could not be married if they were the same sex really opened a new way of thinking. I think that we should really take a look at what love and marriage really mean before we tell people it is “wrong” for them to love and want to marry someone of the same sex.
If someone were to ask me off the bat, is Darren Manzella gay, I would have said no absolutely not. Why? He doesn’t fit any gay stereotype that I am accustomed to. However, it is strange that upon learning that he was gay, I started to pick up some traits that could potentially label him as a homosexual. When he first started talking I did not think he was gay, he didn’t have the flamboyant features and characteristics that usually trademarks people as gay. However, although people are known to have certain traits that make them gay, that doesn’t mean it changes them as a person or changes their morale. This is why I think that the “don’t ask don’t tell” policy is a little outdated. If someone is gay or not, I don't think that affects their ability to fight for the country that they love. To become a soldier for the United States takes an incredible amount of courage and dedication and to fire a soldier on the basis of their homosexuality is totally beyond me. Someone is willing to give their life up to the army, but they send it back if they are gay? It baffles me. I said that the “don't ask don't tell policy” is outdated because a) its 2009, we, as a nation, have grown more accepting of homosexuality. Personally, I am not the most open person about this topic but even I have found that from my experience here in college I’ve grown to be more accepting. B) I feel that it’s one thing to not really discuss anyone’s sexual orientation, but to “release” someone on this basis is completely absurd.
I find it hard to believe that having a LGBT soldier weakens morale because my gay friends are some of the most peppy, outgoing, friendly people to walk this earth. How could someone of that nature bring down morale? All jokes aside, I believe that this “weak morale” is an excuse that people of the military are not ready to accept and change their minds. I don’t think that a person’s sexual orientation decides whether or not a group of people can get along or not. Granted whether someone is gay, straight, black, blue or purple, not everyone is going to get along. Everyone has their differences, but to say that sexual orientation weakens morale is completely erroneous. This is where I believe that those who are not accepting of LGBT comes into play, it is, in my opinion, actually them who weaken morale because they are not willing to expand their horizons and befriend these people, who are people too! Through these people’s negative reactions to homosexuals, I believe it is because of this that morale is brought down. I find this completely ridiculous. To release a person because of their sexual orientation is outrageous. I thought the United States believed in an “army of one,” clearly it is an army that does not accept all people from all walks of life. This article has really got me thinking about the way the military conducts itself.
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When I first saw the video of Darren Manzella I thought there is no way in hell this guy is gay. I mean I know gay people and this is not your stereotypical gay man who is flamboyant and loud. This man seems like an action hero from some summer blockbuster. He did two tours in Iraq for goodness sake. I think this clip is a huge step forward for the LGBT community proving that they are just as tough as anyone and aren’t just like the stereotypes we see on TV. At the same time, this is disappointing from the side of the U.S Army. Why is it that they have no problem if this young man is shot up in Baghdad or steps on a land mine in Afghanistan but they have to discharge him from the military because he is homosexual? They can’t say that he is disrupting morale because of the study that was recently conducted proved that wrong. He wasn’t hurting anyone by being gay; to his fellow soldiers he was just that, a soldier. There is no way in hell that his fellow soldiers were going to not trust him, they were fighting a war they had more important things to do than wonder if he would try to hit on them. I am hoping that soon this will not be an issue anymore. Should it really matter who a person loves, or how they feel about their own sexuality? Isn’t it enough that they are willing to die for dear old Uncle Sam? I know that if I was gay and this is how my country repaid me for laying down my life I would be in an outrage. It’s amazing that this rule has been around as long as it has; this isn’t the 60’s anymore. People have changed, the times have changed. The policy of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is ridiculous; you would never ask straight people to not talk about their wives or families. I think it is almost comical how a country that prides itself on accepting people of all races, religions, and sexual orientations doesn’t want a gay man to protect his country. There are no laws forbidding Asians or Muslims from fighting. Why should there be a restriction against the LGBT community?
Going back to Darren Manzella, this story has totally altered my perception of what it means to be gay. You don’t have to hang out at gay bars or drink cosmos to be homosexual; this video really opened my eyes up to try to refrain from stereotypes. Here is this guy who looked pretty huge, was in the military for the better part of a decade and 99 out of 100 people on the street would never think this guy is gay. I guess you can’t judge a book by its cover.
My ex-boyfriend is enlisted in the Army and throughout his four years in Iraq, he didn’t know that his closest friend in the Army was gay. But when he found out, he could have cared less. You see, no matter if you are straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender, you are in the US Army, fighting for my freedom – the fight I do not want to partake in. Someone has to do it and I’d be thankful for anyone, no matter their sexual orientation, who enlists in the Army.
I think the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy is one of stupidest thing this country has done. No matter your sexual orientation, you are trained just like any other solider. Who seriously thinks it “weakens morale”? I bet you the people who are homophobes. So the US doesn’t want other countries to know we have LGBT’s in our military. Seriously – they should teach race relations in the Army.
It’s funny how when I tried to find the country with the highest percentage of gays in the military, a Facebook discussion popped up that sickened me (http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=33699672217&topic=15824) . Here is what this man “Joe F. Watson” wrote:
“I don't think gays should be allowed to serve in the military at all. They should seek help for their psychiatric problems and the tax payers should not have to foot the bill. Homosexuality is a choice made by perverts. Perverts belong in prison. Nuff Said!”
I wonder what racial identity scale he is at. Obviously, he doesn’t research LGBT issues and psychology before posting his comments. Another person left a comment saying that gay men would get aroused showering with other guys in the barracks — HA! That is probably some guy who thinks he is the shit and all people love him. But seriously, I am a female and I don’t get aroused by all naked guys I see. I have many gay friends who don’t get aroused when they see other guys, even if showering naked in the gym locker room. I want to think these people don’t know better, but then I thought about it, and realized they are self-absorbed, cocky, egotistical, racist homophobes.
Homophobes are the ones that enforce “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” Since DADT was introduced, more than 13,000 LGBT citizens have been discharged. And become of that, the government had to spend more than $200 million to recruit and train their replacements. So my tax money went to train NEW solidier because the GAY ones weren’t good enough. Fuck that. After watching that video, I am honored that Manzella served in the military to ensure my freedom, and good for him for coming out to the public. It is people like Manzella that push the issue of DADT in the government’s face. With gay marriage rights emerging in society, the government has to reevaluate the DADT policy. We have learned to accept all races, religions, and even gender in the military, but not sexual orientation? For this, I am ashamed to be an American citizen.
First of all, looking at Darren Manzella I would never think he is gay. He is your typical man who women would be attracted to: blonde, blue eyes, buff, soldier. But, watching the interview and the way he talks and his facial expressions how can a person not think he is gay? It’s in the eyes, plus he is just too pretty!
The army needs to get with the times. The “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy makes me want to make a commercial saying: “There’s strong, then there’s Army strong, oh! And there is also people who we don’t talk about but serve our country the same way as everyone else in the army who are straight does.” I don’t understand why the army would be so close minded about this subject, especially in the case of Manzella; The man served in Iraq TWICE.
He did his job just like everyone else who was in his unit. What I don’t understand is how can the army allow men and women to bring pictures and talk to about their significant others openly only if their significant other is of the opposite sex. What does that have to do with anything? There are husbands and wives who both serve in the army and one is not discharged because the other is around so why can’t a gay man have a gay boyfriend OUTSIDE of the army.
Obviously his 15 months in Iraq where he was open to his unit about being gay did not “weaken morale” because they were very welcoming of him and one woman even invited him AND his partner to her wedding! I think that this is probably one of thousands of untold stories about gays in the army that would be enough to put forth a strong argument against the DADT policy.
Manzella has obviously proved himself in the army. I don’t understand why they want to repress all the gay men and women, (as stated by the article which is estimated to be 65,000). What happened to freedom of speech? Why can’t a gay army man talk about his boyfriend openly? I’m sure that straight men talk about having sex with women all the time during combat, especially when they haven’t had interaction with their loved ones in a very long time. If they can talk openly about that I say let the gays talk among the gays about their sex life too!
One thing that I think of when I think of gay warriors, I think of the Odyssey by Homer where there is scene in the book where he describes very vividly warriors having sex after winning a battle and partying all night. Well, these men weren’t gay, but they were open minded. I’m not saying the army should have all their men have sex with each other, I am saying that if warriors back then could commit such acts and still be accepted by society and their peers, why can’t our modern day warriors be respected the same way?
I think don’t ask, don’t tell policy goes against human nature. Soldiers are naturally going to ask other people about their personal lives and that includes significant others. Having a policy that denies a person the right to ask a question and someone to answer goes against the first amendment of freedom of speech. The government cannot dictate to its military what questions are acceptable to ask.
Soldiers live in close quarters and must count on each other in life and death situations every day. Soldiers become bands of brothers and sisters and deserve to have open relationships with each other. Gay soldiers should not have to go back into the closet or fear that they might lose their job over being gay. We have soldiers in two wars in different countries and reinforcements all over the world. We need every able bodied and willing soldier whether they are gay, bi, straight, Trans to join. Gay people should be able to talk about their lovers just as any straight soldier can talk about theirs. This is an issue about inequality and it’s time that justice came to gays in the military.
Honesty is a virtue that the military values yet, forcing soldiers to remain in the closet and not be open about who they love contradicts that belief. The armed forces and government cannot pride themselves on being honest, proud, and brave and then enact a policy that says don’t ask, don’t tell. The DADT policy circumvents the issue because that seems easier than actually thinking and talking about the issue of homosexuality in the military. However, gay people will still be gay with or without this policy which only makes them lie about their sexual identity.
I think that most people respect honesty even if they do not agree with what a person is being honest about. I have heard people say that they do not support homosexuality, but that they do respect a person who is openly gay, and would prefer that people come out versus act straight. This policy basically means, out of sight, out of mind and I guess it makes certain people feel better when people do not tell about being gay, but that does not stop gay people from being gay.
I believe that gay people would be much happier and more productive if they could be open about who they are. No one that takes the step of coming out of the closet wants to go back in and it’s a slap in the face whenever a policy says “don’t tell.” I’ve never been in the military, but I can imagine that soldiers like to talk about home and that includes their wives, husbands, boyfriends, and girlfriends. People need to talk about things that make them feel better and significant others can motivate soldiers to make it through a tour of duty. Gay people should be able to share stories about their boyfriends and girlfriends as openly like their straight peers.
I am baffled by this. I have heard about “don’t ask, don’t tell”, but I have never seen its effects or the facts upfront, especially not from someone who has been personally affected. This is a very important topic for America and needs to be addressed. I give a lot of credit to him for speaking out about this topic and risk being discharged, which did end up happening. I would actually love to know whose bright idea it was to make up this rule and what motivated it. Here we have brave, capable, and patriot individuals willing and wanting to fight for our country, a country whose officials clearly do not support them as people, and they are being denied because of who they are! These incredibly brave souls who want to fight for our country are being denied. I am quite sure that we need soldiers, however, in some instances those clearly capable for what the role of being a member of the armed forces is defined as are denied. I am incredibly irked by the fact that it is our leaders, our country America: Land of the Free’s leaders, who are discriminating against who a person is. We have come a long way and accept many races to fight, who not gays and lesbians? What determines one’s patriotism and qualification to fight for America? Who are these leaders to tell someone that who they choose to care about and love is wrong and affects the troops and the ability of everyone to perform well and optimally? Consider how much after you know someone is gay that you are constantly reminded of it? How frequently does one look to their friends or coworkers and consistently think about their sexually orientation. Truly consider that fact. I have found that it is rarely every single time you see them if not every day. So how could their sexual orientation possibly hurt the morale or unity or teamwork of a unit? I feel that there would be very little affect. Someone’s sexual orientation does not define them or shape their personality or life, etc, just as race does not define someone. Bottom line! So let’s discuss the name of this policy, “don’t ask, don’t tell”. So if no one ever knew then that does not affect anything within a unit. Now it is still the same person, same personality, same past, same qualification, same morale, and same enthusiasm. Now, take this same person, and say they everyone in their unit is told. After a day or two, with all of the commotion and with so much on everyone’s mind, most if not all of the unit will accept it and forget about it. The technicality of the situation is absurd. I cannot believe that this solution was essentially kicked out of the armed forces, not because he was unqualified or performed an unjust act or put one of his unit members in jeopardy, but simply because he has a gay partner and directs his love towards someone of the same gender. This policy needs to be revoked and have America reflect what it stands for and what it’s citizens have been raised to believe. Land of the Free!
The army in the past has been known to do some things that do not necessarily agree with the majority of the country. They have stayed stationed in warring countries too long, killed too many civilians in certain areas, and sometimes make unfavorable decisions. However, the way they treat LGBT soldiers has got to be near the top of the list of really bad choices or ways to handle sensitive situations. When you enroll into the army, you are trained to be all that you can be as they say in the commercial. In other words, you are trained to be relentless and to never give up on the battlefield. Even if you are a homosexual, you are still trained to be the same type of soldier as everyone else. So to say that a LGBT soldier would distract or “weaken morale” of the unit is just a bullshit way of saying that the United States military is homophobic and does not want to other militaries seeing that we have homosexuals defending our country.
This article really opened my eyes to the fact that gay soldiers are no less qualified to defend our county. If I ever met this man in person I would not only think he was straight, but probably be pretty intimidated by his size. He just looks like a soldier and knowing that he is gay would not make me feel any less about him. He clearly loves what he does and it is really sad to see that he got discharged for something as minor as being gay. I would not be surprised if this guy was more of a soldier than most straight soldiers. Also I do not understand how being guy “weakens morale”. What about a gay guy would depress a team and not make them want to fight? They are part of the greatest army in the world so it makes it hard for me to believe that, of all things, a gay man would bring them down. Not the intense training, harsh conditions they fight in, or the fact that they could die at any point, but the fact that there is homosexual fighting alongside them. I know personally if I was in the army and my unit had a gay man or even a lesbian, I would put my total faith in them knowing that they were trained properly by the United States army.
We have learned to accept every other race, religion, and gender enrolling in the military. So how come gays can’t be accepted too? I really do not see the big deal. They are not enrolling as a joke. They are joining because they want to better themselves as human beings and keep this country safe. The same reason everyone else does it and sexual preference should not make a difference.
I think that the don’t ask don’t tell policy is unsuitable for the army. Basically it is saying that you can fight for our country only if your sexuality is kept as a secret (gays). I think that it is just absurd to deny people the right support/fight for their own country. A LGTB is as much of a U.S citizen as any other straight man or woman.
I feel like Darren Manzella is being deprived of his rights. Don’t all citizens have the same right and freedom to say what they want to say and do what they want to do? Kicking Manzella out of the army is basically taking away his rights to work as a certain profession. If gay people have the right to marry in some states how don’t they have the right to fight in the U.S military if they are openly gay? Was he not doing his job right?
I feel like it relates to racism in a way. What if a black guy could no longer work for his employer any longer because they didn’t want a black guy representing their company? I think that is a big issue in today’s world. It is similar to Manzella’s situation because being a member of the military was his job for several years and the only reason he was “released” was because of his sexual orientation. The military employed him and did not want to be represented by a gay man. This is 2009! How is this still allowed to happen in today’s world? As Sam told our class, “why should it matter if someone is gay? It doesn’t affect you”. Does the military feel threatened by gays? I just don’t understand. Maybe it is just going to take more time until gays can openly be accepted in the military (it took woman a while to be accepted).
How can being LGBT weaken military moral? I don’t see the correlation between being gay and being a weak person or causing others to be weaker. Menzella was obviously gay for quite a while and never threatened the military’s moral in the past when no one new about his sexuality, so he must have been a good soldier. So the question is after knowing all of this why would the military’s moral weaken because he came out of the closet?
In conclusion, I think that the military has to join “the wave” and stop trying to fight it. People have rights and should not be deprived of them because they are gay. I think that the don’t ask don’t tell policy is wrong because it sends a message to its soldiers saying that being gay is not welcome in the U.S military (which by after reading this article it clearly isn’t). Lastly I think that life is too short and that we need to let people do what makes them happy. Let’s stop putting our hands in other people’s pockets and let them live their life to the fullest. In my opinion, if we are so worried about what other people are doing we must not be so confident/happy with ourselves.
Personally, I think Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is one of the most discriminating things against the LGBT community that the military could possibly have. In our current state, our country is in dire need of soldiers to fight the war, so why not allow everyone who is willing to sacrifice their life for our country the right to? Furthermore, why not allow anyone who is willing to take on that position to be true to who they are while doing so instead of living in a state of hiding and shame. By having the military endorse this policy is like saying that everyone in it is close-minded and homophobic. In keeping in mind the study that found that the having no policy would have zero effect on the morale of soldiers, the question of ‘what is the purpose of this policy?’ becomes even clearer to me. So, what exactly was the military’s aim when they enacted this policy, and what makes it okay?’ While watching this video, if Darren had not admitted that he was gay, I honestly would never have suspected that he was. Maybe this was because he has gotten so good at hiding his sexuality, but the essential question here is why should he have to? Really, what makes it right that this policy was ever passed? Did the military not think of the ethical implications that go along with it? Essentially, they are telling people who are gay that they can perform all the duties of a soldier properly, but the second they come out of the closet or go public suddenly they are completely inept and useless. It makes absolutely no sense at all. I think that this policy is seriously violating the human rights of all LGBT’s. They should have a right to be who they are and not have to cover it up in order to perform their job. Soldiers already have enough to worry about, and they should not have to constantly worry about hiding their true identity from their fellow soldiers. After all, these are the people that they are trusting with their lives. In my one class there is a boy in the ROTC program, and one day the topic of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell can up and responded in the way that you would think a typical straight prejudiced male would, by shuddering a little and making prejudiced remarks. I couldn’t help but think of this class and how he has no valid reason to feel this way, and is probably dealing with questioning his own sexuality or really has never been exposed to a gay person before. In fact, I think if everyone had to be exposed to someone who was LGBT they would find out fast that they too are human and deserve the same respect as anyone else.
Yeah…and to think of the many LGBTs he’ll come into contact with in his years in the military…
The issue with Manzella is that he wouldn’t have been honorably discharged had he not said anything about his case. That is a disturbing fact and also the fact that speaking out about it publicly got him there, I think that there should be change in the army.
Considering his case, he wouldn’t have been opened up to the issue had he not served in the army in the first place, so it shows that in a job like that, where you see death and destruction all around you will inevitably begin to question yourself and whether you want to live “inside” the closet for your time to come. This is very interesting as when people know that the reality of not coming home is much more imminent, they want to find out for themselves whether their feelings of gaydom is true or not. In Manzella’s case, it was a good thing for him, as he was opened up to the world around him and realized that life is too short. This probably made him grow much closer to his boyfriend and ultimately, his sexuality.
The way that he talked showed that he is actually comfortable the way he is and that he is a man after all. Just because he is “with” another dude doesn’t make him any less of a man. In fact, it probably makes him a much bigger man to be able to face the people that have been prosecuting and oppressing him and people like him, who are harmlessly gay.
Had I seen him on the street, I would have never judged him in that way of thinking that he might even be gay to the slightest degree. But, as the stereotypes play out, we are all inclined to think that gay people all look, walk or even talk the same, and although we would have judged a straight man for being gay (one that fitted those stereotypes), it is harder for many people to see that men like Manzella are gay.
The sad part of this is that some people would prefer it if their countries would “get rid” of gay people, and no violently at that, but remove them nonetheless. This is what I found out from my friend who had made his argument last night that he doesn’t care for gay people, but he doesn’t want to see “that kind of thing” in his country. Or, that he doesn’t want them ruining his country’s reputation. The problem with that is the fact that it is my country too, and although there is a huge population of gay people these days there, it is hard to believe that he thinks that they should be “taken care of” and let go somewhere where they have rights. But god forbid if it should be in his country, in their own country where they are to have these rights and start demanding that they be treated as equals.
This is an issue in which some people will start to make sense of things differently and conflict will always arise from this, so best just leave it to the experts.
I cannot understand some of the decisions and rules our country has sometimes. So you can be gay to serve your country in the army but you just cannot talk about it or let anyone know. As our country is changing and evolving so should our legal system. Why cant someone whose gay, lesbian, bisexual or transvestite be open with who they are. These people cannot help the fact that they are this way so they should have to hind an important aspect of their life. Why wouldn’t Americans want anyone who is willing fight for their country? They are sacrificing their lives for us but are forbidden to express who they really are or be dismissed from the army. We have been discussing a lot in class about this issue and Sam has talked a lot about how times are changing and if you don’t change with them you will be left behind. I agree times are changing and as years pass more and more people will become increasingly accepting but when will the army accept this? There are obviously some people who are flamboyant about their sexuality and very open so it is easy to give those people labels about their sexual orientation. Others seem like everyone else and it is impossible to tell their sexual orientation by just looking at them, this is the case of Darren Manzella. If a recent military report stated that LBGT soldiers would not lower moral than why hasn’t policy changed. If LBGT people can have any occupation than why cant they be in the army, it is just so hard for me to understand. In the video clip Darren talks about how good it felt to be open about his sexuality for a few months when all the other LGBT soldiers had to hide part of their identity. I commend him for sacrificing his life for our country and coming out and still being happy with his decisions and thinking that the army will change. The fact that the army has to do investigations on people as to whether or not they are gay is repulsive. Don’t these people have better things to do with their time? Work should be a professional place but you gain friends at your workplace and should be able to talk openly about your significant other and personal life and not have to hide who you really are from your co-workers (or co-soldiers). Darren makes a good point in the video clip, “life is too short to not be who you really are.” He chose to come out to himself and in doing so lost his position in the military. Why does it have to be one or the other?
I am definitely not someone who can tell when someone else is gay or not but I would never think from that interview that Darren Manzella was gay if the topic of the interview was being gay in the military. This whole topic of don’t ask don’t tell infuriates me. My oldest brother is in the military and some of his closes friends have come and are gay and I see him having no problem with them serving on the front lines right next to him. I think it is embarrassing of the army let they let Mr. Manzella serve another fifteen months in Iraq and then honorably discharged him for being a homosexual. I do not understand, Mr. Manzella must be an excellent soldier and work extremely well with his unit because he served two tours and survived them both. Why can he no longer serve his country and protect his fellow citizens of the United States. Personally I do not care what someone looks like or what their orientation is, as long as they are willing to fight for our freedom as Americans I will love and appreciate them until the day I die.
At the end of the day for lack of better words, Darren was man enough to join the military, serve two tours in Iraq, and protect fellow United States citizens’ freedom. If being gay means you are not fit for active duty, where are all the straight men who were not brave enough to step up to the plate and protect their country but will not let a gay man serve in the United States Army. I think this ties into what Sam said in class, the problem is not the gay men, it is all the straight men who are not comfortable with their homosexuality. The gay men and women who serve in the military did not sign, particularly the men, to flirt and have sex with the mass amounts of men who have also enlisted in the army. The gay men and women are in the military for the same reason straight men and women are to protect and serve United States citizens.
At the end of the day I think it is dishonorable of the United States military to discharge gay men and women because of their sexual orientation. Being gay should not define someone as a person, it should not even been brought up as an issue. Like I said earlier if someone is willing to sign up to go to war for my freedom, they deserve my thanks not my discrimination. I hope that soon this is no longer an issue. After the discussion we had in class about being gay in the military the issue seems to be diminishing and people in the military no longer seem to think it is an issue if fellow soldiers are gay or not.
In today’s lecture we talked about homosexuality and job interviews in which I said I think you can tell if someone is gay. I should have clarified that I think it depends on the actual person because the people that I know who are, you can tell just by their voice and their hand motions. I also have known them for awhile and they share their life with me so that could make me be partial to that idea as well. Although with this video clip, I would have never guessed that Darren Manzella was gay one bit. He certainly had me fooled and I do not believe that anyone would be able to tell in a job interview either.
Not only was he willing to sacrifice his own life and join the army but he was also deployed twice for this country. Not everyone is willing to give up everything and join the army in order to make sure we are all safe. Harassing emails and telephone calls were not needed. One of the e-mails, “You are stupid, the Army is going to kick you out, but before they do, they are going to take your rank away and all your money away.” He can not change anything now that people are aware of his homosexuality. I was not aware that people could be investigated for “being gay” but I guess the military does have their own sorts of rules and laws that their men and women must abide by. After volunteering for the CBS interview about a soldier who came out as being gay, I think he maybe should have known that may stir up some trouble. Although I believe it should not, of course the don’t ask, don’t tell has to come into play. Reason for discharge, “homosexual conduct” I could not imagine how a person in his shoes would respond to that. I would feel hurt and it is not fair because he is attracted to men and not women. I never knew that around 13,000 men and women have been discharged because they were homosexual. There are so many different types of people who join the army and to judge someone based upon their sex preference is wrong.
Back to the don’t ask, don’t tell rule (DADT) I do not find this wrong if someone is only discussing their sexual orientation. Although I can see how some people would be uncomfortable with homosexual sexual activities going on. People are used to it being and a guy and a girl, and those who go against that are stigmatized by their peers.
A good quote to end with from Darren Manzella, “Life is too short to not be who you really are.” Enough said.
First off I will start by say that I absolutely do not agree the whole idea about the “don’t ask don’t tell” policy and what it stands to represent. It is basically promoting more LBGT’s to stay in closet in order to keep their jobs. The “don’t ask don’t tell” is basically depriving them of the rights. The Constitution states that we have a freedom speech and religion; so why should not we have the freedom to express our sexual orientation. Most people like my self would not even consider enlisting into to the military. I feel as though those people who are brave enough to enlist in the military with a passion to fight for our country should have to date whomever they desire.
In the case of Darren Manzela a soldier who served his country for 7 years before he was discharged for openly expressing his sexual orientation. I strongly believe that the government wrongfully discharged him. Honestly, why is it okay for some one to risk their life every single day for their country but it is not okay for them to be a homosexual. It does not make sense what so ever! That fact that he is a gay does affect his abilities to serve his country. I do not agree with the idea that his sexual preference may have been able to weaken the military morale. Before Darren Manzela was open about his sexuality it did not affect his performance so now that he is out of the closet does not mean that his performance would be weaken.
I do not understand how our government expects us to serve our country proudly when in reality it does not even support some of its LGBT citizens. They deserve the right to serve their country just like any other heterosexual soldier. They sexual orientation should not be something that they should have to hide. As I mentioned before we are supposedly living in a free country so why is it not okay LGBT citizens to have the same rights as everyone else. I feel as though the “don’t ask don’t tell” policy should be abolished. The government is losing more than they are gaining by discharging LGBT soldiers. Many of them acquire skills that are not easy to come by and by discharging those talented to soldiers is causing the government to lose out on a lot of money. In country that is undergoing a recession losing money should be a last option. Thinking realistically the LGBT soldiers are not doing anything wrong except being themselves and expressing who they are. They fought hard for their country and they should be respected and noticed for that and not their sexual orientation.
The stand by saying, “Don’t judge a book by its cover,” seems to hold true in most cases. It’s been proven multiple times in class even when students were identified as the wrong race or wrong subgroup of people. Even though there are what we call flamboyant gays and lesbians, most go undetected and people cannot identify weather someone is gay or lesbian just by looking at them, or even interacting with them and knowing them well. I would not have suspected that Srgt. Darren Manzella was gay as I suspect most people would not. It saddens me that you can still get discharged from the army for DADT. It should be a non-issue in the military just like it would be in any other profession. We should not be turning away skilled and talented people that want to serve this country on the basis of their sexual preference. The fact that his whole unit knew and Srgt. Manzella never ran into any discomfort but instead felt closer to his unit, is an indication on just how much of a non-issue this is. I think the first time I heard about the issue of DADT in the military was when the New Orleans season of the Real World was being shown. On that season there was a gay man who was in the military and told his roommates that he feared the military finding out he was gay because of DADT. To hear his personal story and the story of Srgt. Manzella shows that these just normal people that only wish to fulfill their duty as soldiers to their country. Why would the United States have a law in place that denies homosexuals of that right? It makes no sense that DADT still exists and I say we update that law as in get rid of it as soon as possible. I do not see how being gay in the military would affect anything. As long as soldiers are following their orders what should it matter? Being homosexual has no affect on the duties and tasks assigned to the soldiers. It was interesting for me to learn just how many people are estimated to be homosexual in the military. If the military discharged 65,000 people we’d be in serious debt trying to train and replace all those people. Just the amount of money lost in the homosexuals discharged is a waste and very unnecessary. It is a littler ironic that that many homosexuals are fighting for a country that believes in freedom and the same rights for all when they are being discriminated against for their sexual preference. Seems a little backwards to me. I have a lot of respect for anyone that goes into any military branch for the United States. I would like to especially say, Happy Veterans Day!
First of all the answer to your first question, I am one of those people who thinks they “know” pretty well when someone is LGBT without them telling me, and I would probably think there was something different about Darren Manzella but I definitely would not classify him as gay right away. It’s perfect that this was posted on Veteran’s day when we’re supposed to be honoring our soldiers stationed all over the world. On the other hand, the army is making it seem kind of like Darren wasn’t doing our country a great service and sacrificing his life just like the other straight soldiers in his very troop. He was doing something many of us in the classroom would not be able to do and he should be able to serve our country, gay or not. If you are too personally afraid to spend months in Iraq getting shot at, then you should not be able to judge someone and stop a gay man from doing it for you. Obviously this proves anyone who thinks that homosexuals are different from other people or less tough wrong. I wouldn’t want to mess with a guy in the army, even if he was gay.
I also find it pretty crazy that in the year 2009, a soldier can still get kicked out of the army and have his reason for discharge be filed under “homosexual conduct”. I guess it is ok that he was honorably discharged because he broke an army rule (as dumb as it may be), but to have it written out on his form is terrible. I find this the same as kicking a black guy out of the army and saying he was discharged because he was African-American. It just makes no sense. For all of those homophobes who say that they should be banned because it affects the morale of the unit can just look at the reports from officials who prove it false. I would say that having a gay man on each unit would actually lift team morale due to them having to adjust to different kinds of people.
I think the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy should be lifted as soon as possible. The only reason this policy is still around is probably because of old high ranking officials not raised in this generation who are not as accepting of homosexuals. Just like segregation of schools 50 years ago, I consider this segregation in the army. Years from now after the policy is taken away I’m sure we are going to look back and not be able to believe that we actually only admitted homosexuals into the Army as long as they kept quiet about it.
The article this week is another intriguing one. We did talk about this in class on Tuesday and last Thursday, and before that I didn’t give the topic much thought. I assumed that there are many gay and lesbian soldiers, as in everyday society, but I never stopped to think about the ramifications of being a homosexual in the armed forces. And while we are the note of being honest, I was actually very surprised the Darren Manzella is gay. I think I keep a fairly open mind that homosexual people do not carry a stereotypical look, but he sort of threw me for a loop. It’s just one of the many lessons I still have to learn about others and about myself. The main reason why I never stopped is because I am in awe of the people who put their lives on the line to defend our country. I rarely stop to think, are they straight? To me it doesn’t matter who you are as long as you honestly want to defend our country and you are willing to do anything that is all that matters.
We live in a world where homosexuality is slowly becoming more accepted in all aspects of life. There are more states making gay marriage legal, and homosexuals are seeing more equality in the workplace. I think this is a great step in the right direction. Perhaps it’s the air the armed forces gives off, but I think the government thinks if gay people start joining the armed forces or come out other people will not join. I think this situation is very unlikely to imagine.
Homosexual people did not just show up in the armed forces in recent years, they have been members since the beginning of the military. The only difference is that they lived by a very strict “don’t ask don’t tell” policy. Now that gay people are getting more rights everywhere else in the United States they feel it is time they get it where they should the most, defending their rights and the rights of everyone in our country. It does seem hypocritical to say that we want people to join the armed forces that are willing to defend the rights of every American when they aren’t allowed to defend their own.
The fact that Darren was “honorably discharged” from the armed forces and they stated one of the reasons being for homosexuality is unfathomable. I really was shocked that he didn’t get any of the pay he rightfully deserved, and I am really disgusted with the way the government handled it. I am glad to see that people are starting to recognize that things have to change in order for not only some new people to join, but also for already enlisted soldiers to stick around.
Even though, the gay community is getting more widely accepted in America. There are still some sectors and places in American Society that have sympathized with LGBT people and situations. The army is a big example of this. The “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” policy is a very homophobic policy. I do not believe that just because someone is gay, they cannot serve in the army. It is a policy rooted in illogicality. I don’t think that they have a clear reason as to why gay people cannot serve in the army. What is even worse is that, they discharge you from the army when they find out that you are gay. What is the difference between when a soldier comes and when he is in the closet? There is none and it goes to show you that being gay doesn’t affect anything at all
The guy in the video, Darren Manzella was given honorable discharge for being homosexual. In the video I couldn’t even tell that he was gay. He didn’t act any type of way. He didn’t act differently from what a regular male would act like. He served his country like any other man but just because he was gay, he had to be discharged. Out in the barracks, I don’t think it matters about who is gay and who is not. It had nothing to do with what they serve their country for. I don’t believe anyone would care in the midst of a battle. It is pretty sad that he cannot serve his country because of his sexual orientation. I believe that this is rooted from the whole image of the army. It is supposed 2 be filled with people that have that whole image of what being a true man is. I guess that being gay doesn’t fit that mold for them and that is why they are trying to eradicate that from the army. My whole argument is that why does it matter, as long as someone is willing and capable to serve their country. This kind of prejudice is the same as blacks not being allowed to join the army. It is the same kind of discrimination. It’s a shame that they cannot see that.
The recent report from military officials investigating whether having LGBT soldiers on a unit “weakens morale” decidedly determined that it does not and that the DADT policy should be abandoned. This should be enough for them to rescind the DADT policy. I don’t understand why they would think that it would weaken morale. There are many other factors that might weaken morale and I don’t think the fact of someone being gay would do that. In summation it’s just an excuse to discriminate.
After reading the article and watching the video titled “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell…please,” I was shocking about a few details. First of all I was surprised to find out that Darren Manzella was actually a gay man in the military. Although I do have gay friends, some of which that do not act flamboyantly gay, I do not have a friend that is openly gay and has a job quite like serving in the United States’ Military. The way Darren Manzella acts and talks differs very little when compared to my actual friends in the military. It was good that the article opened my eyes on the fact that not only can gays act and speak like an average straight male, they can also do the same type of work without letting it interfere with that work place.
On the issue of “don’t ask, don’t tell,” I cannot stress enough how against I am for preventing an openly gay or lesbian, male or female, serve to protect their very country. As the recent report from military officials investigating whether having gay soldiers in a unit actually weakens morale found that it does not, I think they need to remove the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy immediately.
An amazing statistic founded by the University of California that was pointed out by the article is that it is predicted that 65,000 men and women serving in the military are in fact, gay. This totally shocked me and further fueled my fire against “don’t ask, don’t tell.” I believe it is ridiculous to discriminate against a group of people that large. If anything, I believe that this policy actually affects more people than it actually ‘benefits’. Although I do see dropping of the current policy potentially causing some problems within the first few months of people coming out in the military, I have no doubt it is something that must happen. As we’ve learned in Sociology 119 with Sam Richards, it is obvious that America is turning into a more accepting country and continuing to discriminate against a group of people regardless of beliefs or race will put you behind in the long run. The time is now for the United States Military to take on this belief and drop “don’t ask, don’t tell.”
I am forced to give major props to Darren Manzella for basically turning himself into the spokesperson against “don’t ask, don’t tell.” Him speaking out, and coming out, against this policy has thrown it into the spot light in the national media. I believe he will end up being looked at as a hero in the United States Military. Although he was honorably discharged, I agree with what the Army said, that they were just implementing the law. If the law were different, they would have acted different. That is why the time is now to appeal “don’t ask, don’t tell” and let people be who they are while serving this great country.
First off, if this dude wants to go out and put his life on the line every day for me and the country then what he does on his own time shouldn’t be a problem. This man is not hurting anyone by being gay, it’s when he bringing his own sexually life into the army is when there seems to be an issue. But as mentioned by him he didn’t know that he was gay until he came back from Iraq. I’m sure a majority of the people that watched the video feel the same way that I do about this man’s situation if he’s fighting for his life why she he be kicked out of the army?
The “don’t ask, don’t tell” seems to be pretty far out there anymore. I mean if people are getting kicked out of the job which the army is to some, seems ridiculous. What if the local grocery store or a major company wouldn’t allow homosexually to work there and they fired or kicked the person out. Right, there would be outrage why don’t we see this with the army; I mean come on already that dude could probably kick a bunch of straight guy’s ass in the field while in combat.
I think that I feel so strongly about this now because my friend just graduate from Pitt and he’s going into the air force. The only problem is that he’s gay and he was talking about don’t ask don’t tell bullshit. However, I didn’t think that it was this big of a deal. My friend along with the dude from the video doesn’t act homosexually either. It’s going to be hard for the air force to pick out that he’s gay. It will be tough to deal with if he’s in his third year of being in the air force and the find that he is gay and kick him out its already a struggle being gay so why put them through more bullshit.
I guess my main concern here is that if these people want to fight for us and our country they shouldn’t be stopped. I mean the army, air force and etc. need to be clear about why they don’t allow gays into the that society. To my knowledge it doesn’t make sense. I guess if you have one of those gays that kind of act real girlish than yeah maybe then can’t carry those 90 pound back pack or whatever but it doesn’t seen as if those type are signing up for the army or air force. If these people can pass the training and not bring there sexullyness into the job then they should be left alone just like the just of the people.
I’m going to start by answering Sam Richards questions first in response to the video. Just by looking at Darren Manzella and listen to his documentary, I would never think that he was gay. Being a military man and serving for so long pushes the idea of him being gay out of the picture. He seems like a typical guy just trying to get through life. After he came out as gay, it still didn’t bother me. I still look at him as a hero for serving and helping to preserve this country. The “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy didn’t really seem to matter after he was investigated for being gay. If he didn’t give any signs of it, why did they investigate him? I don’t think it’s very fair at all. Obviously being gay didn’t affect his work, his life, or the people around him. And when he came out, it still didn’t affect anyone. It’s been proven that a LGBT soldier doesn’t weaken morale in a unit and they believe that the DADT policy should be removed. I still don’t understand why it matters so much to be LGBT or straight. Sexuality shouldn’t be a concern to anyone but you. Two guys or two girls together doesn’t bother me. Everyone was put on this earth to be him or herself and live life the way they want to. You can’t help whom you love or the feelings you have. It’s not fair that because he was gay he got discharged from the army. That is not a legitimate excuse especially when a big percentage of the military doesn’t mind LGBTs being soldiers. He worked from 2002-2008 and no one noticed it throughout the entire time he served until he openly came out about it and was asked to do a documentary. He was loyal to the country and loyal to the troops. All he wants in return in acceptance by his peers. Like Darren said, life is too short to be hiding all the time. I feel that it’s super important to accept yourself. Who cares what other think? But when it starts to affect your job and your career, that’s when it becomes unfair and a problem. You shouldn’t have to hide your true colors in fear of judgment. I just think these issues need to be abandoned. There is so much going on in the world that needs to be focused on rather than people’s sexual orientation. It shouldn’t be anyone’s concerns, yet it affects everyone. It affects people’s lives, their jobs, their futures, and reputations. We should be worried about world poverty, the depression that America is in right now and getting solder’s out of Iraq. Enough is enough.
The United States Army has some balls. Nowadays it seems that where ever I go there is some sort of Army advertisements. They are even on television. The Army obviously wants to recruit more people. I'm sure everyone got those phone calls from officers when you were close to graduating from high school. "What are you doing after high school, you know the Army is a great place to start your future career." But, they have the balls to say if your openly gay then we don't want you fighting for us? Who the hell do they think they are telling me who I can and cannot be attracted toward? This is just insane. I can't even begin to explain what I think about this topic. How in the world does fighting for your own country, to protect your own rights and the rights of millions of citizens have anything to do with your sexual orientation? In response to Sam's first point, from my perspective at least, there is no way that I could possibly see that Darren Manzella is in fact gay. He does and did everything that normal/straight men do. As a boy he worked on a farm and played sports. He probably was a pretty popular kid in high school and then decided to enlist in the US Army. All this time that he served his country, he forced to hide the fact that he likes people of the same sex? Why? I just can't comprehend the fact that there are rules like this.
A lot of people may agree with the "Don't ask don't tell" policy because that way it just keeps things out of the way. Some people would say that it does allow LGBT individuals to enlist and participate, but how is that fair to tell someone you have to keep your sexuality a secret if your "different" from the norm. I definitely do not agree. I don't understand why someone couldn't just say that their gay. Do people think that LGBT individuals can't shoot a gun or can't follow orders? The fact that they are forced to mask their identity and aren't allowed to be themselves probably hurts the Army in more ways than ever. I know that if I were LGBT and in the Army, the fact that I was gay/different and couldn't express myself would be on my mind at all times. This would cause me to perform at a lower level and could risk the lives of my fellow soldiers or even my own life.
In honor of Veteran's day which was yesterday I just wanted to say that I am so thankful of all the people who are and were fighting for the United States. Whether you are LGBT or not it still takes and enormous amount of bravery to go out there on the battlefield and risk your life for the safety of others. I am thankful for everyone of you because I know that I am not this brave, so without you I would be nothing. Thank you.
First of all, I think that the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law with the U.S. Army is complete crap. A person’s sexual orientation should have nothing to do with their performance in the army or in any other line of work. The only time that I can see a person’s sexual orientation being a problem would be if their sexual preference was breaking a team apart or making team members feel uneasy. For example, if a man was gay and came on to one of the members in his unit, that man or some of the other members in the unit may feel uncomfortable with the situation. But this is a rare occurrence and I don’t think it is something to that could be taken into consideration as something that happens all the time. In this particular example, however, Darren did not make his unit feel uncomfortable at all. His sexuality did not affect their performance as individuals or as a team. His unit was actually very supportive of him and he felt that he was comfortable enough to go to his commander and tell him that he was gay. He had a sense of trust with his commander and felt that he would receive the same support from him as he did his unit. I can’t believe that his commander then went and turned him in for breaking the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law. I also found it interesting that even though Darren came out and said that he was gay to his commander and unit, the investigation that followed stated that there were no signs of homosexuality. What are the signs? How can you 100% KNOW that someone is gay or not unless they tell you? He KNOWS he is gay. And he even SAID he is gay. So are they stereotyping that there is a certain way that gay people behave and act? As Darren said, there are 65,000 men and women who are LGBT in the armed forces. If all of these people were to openly come forward, they would most likely all be discharged. I don’t think it’s fair that these people need to keep a secret. They should be allowed to go on with their daily lives such as everyone else and not have to worry about losing their jobs. It’s discrimination if you really think about it. Discriminating against LGBT army men and women is exactly what the army doing. What gives them the right to do this? There are no real reasons that men and women who are LGBT should not be treated as straight men and women in the armed forces. I think it’s truly disappointing that we have to deal with such harsh discrimination to the point that people can lose their jobs. Every time I think we are making advancements forward, it seems like we are just taking two steps back.
Sgt. Manzella comes off as a well educated, dedicated member (well, ex- member) of the U.S. military. He sacrificed his life for years fighting in the war – something that many of us are not even willing to do – and yet we are going judge and condemn him for being gay? Honestly, why does it really matter what sex her prefers? Did it affect his duties or responsibilities overseas? Did he ever cross the line and made another solider feel uncomfortable? No! The military never found a single piece of evidence to prove that he was a homosexual! He was ousted simply because he decided to “come out” in an interview. It’s a free country; he is allowed to speak his mind and express how he feels. The “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” rule needs to be overturned. It’s like telling a soldier that they cannot express any feelings of being scared or afraid of fighting in the war! That is the absolute worst thing you could do to a member of the militia, especially when they are experiencing such a different and daunting life overseas. So imagine a gay soldier being forced to hold in his true identity; it is detrimental to his mental health and overall well-being! Clearly the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” rule is hypocritical; we chastise people from talking about being gay but it is completely fine for a straight solider to talking about their wives and kids! It just does not make any sense.
The military is even more hypocritical because they are fighting in these countries trying to spread democracy and equality and yet they cannot even have that sense of equality in our own militia. There is no equal opportunity in the U.S. military because of the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” rule. Maybe we should rethink our values and put them into effect in our own country and military before we start trying to do it on other people’s grounds.
I really respect Sgt. Manzella for coming out and not suppressing his true identity and feelings. He may not be a member of and making an impact in the U.S. military anymore, but he is taking a huge step for LGBT rights. There are probably countless gay and lesbian soldiers in the military keeping their mouths shut just so they do not have to deal with discrimination but no one should have to live their life like that. Hopefully one day, these soldiers will not have to worry about the issue and can be respected for their duties and impacts on the world rather than worrying about their sexual orientation. Personally, I think that if soldiers can handle sacrificing their lives and fighting overseas then they can handle working with LGBTs.
Don’t ask don’t tell? I will never understand that. As being someone who has a brother in the military he has even told me people who have come out to him in his company he just accepts them for who they are and moves on. He said as long as he stops me from getting killed then that’s all that matters. After he said this, my pride for my brother became even greater since I know how accepting he truly is. So why can’t others be as accepting?
Gays are a part of the population, so I will never understand why people can’t just accept them for who they are. Why is it so horrible to be gay, to like someone of the same sex? A good majority of my close friends are gay, lesbian or bi-sexual. Just because of their personal preference does not mean that their friendship is any different. They do not treat me differently because I am a hetero sexual and I do not treat them differently.
Why is it so difficult to let people be themselves? Are we not supposed to be the country of freedom, of acceptance? If so, then why kick someone out of the military for fighting for his rights? He is still an American, still lives here, and has a family here, he just likes guys. That is not that bad. I can understand discharging someone because they dishonored their branch or committed a crime, but not for being gay, that is just ludicrous!
In the words of Sam Richards, I do feel some kind of way about that. I am all and completely for the rights of people, I strongly believe in letting people come out and accept them for ho they are, and it is beyond my own intelligence when others cannot do that. How is a stranger’s life style affecting you in anyway? If you do not accept the gay lifestyle then stay away from it, it does not affect you personally so people need to stop acting like it does.
The military especially needs to start accepting people for who they are, because those people are the ones who you are protecting and fighting for! It upsets me to see videos like that, or her stories, because people are just people. How can we say we have grown as a country, when people cannot even be themselves in the military? I can understand that since your around all guys that it might be weird having a gay man there seeing you change and be freely naked, but take it as a compliment if he thinks your good looking and want to stare, because while you’re stuck overseas that is the only one you’re going to be getting.
I have always known that the “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” policy both originated and was applied to the U.S. armed forces. However, I must have assumed that its application was more of a suggestion rather than an actual policy, because I never thought that one could be discharged for simply being outwardly gay. Especially in 2008, I am appalled that sexual orientation still constitutes demotion. Of all organizations, it is shameful that the military is one of the most intolerant; yet it represents United States men and women who are willing to put themselves forward for our country. The military is meant to represent the most outstanding and honorably people of our country – which by no means references one’s inability on the basis of either heterosexual or homosexual tendencies.
One of the most profound points I’ve gained from lecture is the whole concept of moving forward. Simply that the ideas associated with homosexuality, bisexualism, and transgender affiliation are all part of a larger and growing, acceptance wave; that no matter how people try and retract such a movement, it has grown so great that it will eventually sweep up everything and everyone to a learned point of understanding. Of all the corporations and organizations today that support the equality of all races, ethnicities, and sexual preferences, how can it be that the military be among the last of the opposition. Darren, our discharged gay vet, even comments saying the military is among the most versatile groups. The military is used to adjusting for every challenge, advancement, and even unexpected attack…yet still, the gay movement, which has been evolving for over fifty years has still been unable to alter the military’s strict “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” ruling.
Even out of this horrible situation, I am proud that people like Darren have the courage to come forward and share personal stories of wrong-doing, such as this one, because it truly sheds attention on an issue that is affecting thousands who are currently gay and in the military. From the video, Darren shares that there is an estimated 65,000 individuals who LGBT in the armed forces. It is innately unfair that these individuals, because of their admirable profession (whether it be the army, navy, or air force) must consequently reserve themselves from being who they are. Even in Darren’s interview, he shares no names or negatives about the military beyond his discharge. By most innocently sharing time with his boyfriend back home, unrelated to his service, Darren was ultimately punished. To me, this consequence is absurdly unjustified and simply associates our military with meaningless and nonsensical leadership. If I am thought to be represented by such people, then I sadly am on the wrong continent.
After reading a story like this I find I feel such sorrow for people like this poor man who have to live in this situation. First of all it must be so hard and discouraging to not be allowed to be who you really are with people that you have to be with 24/7 like you have to do with the people in your squad in the Army. Darren Manzella was not able to talk about his significant other or have pictures of him up. It is difficult enough to be away from your loved ones but to not be able to talk to them in the open or even about them must tear them up inside. It has to be near impossible to focus on fighting and bonding with your fellow soldier when you have to hide a huge part of your life from everyone. But to make the matter worse it sounds like the Army still doesn’t even know how to handle “don’t ask, don’t tell.” To hear that Darren was threatened to be discharged and then he hung out in limbo for a time while being investigated and then having the charges dropped but he was already out for 2 years but eventually being discharged anyway sounds ridiculous. If the government wants to impose such and arbitrary law like this maybe they should make sure the Army believes in it or even understands it.
America is in a time of war and we are desperate for soldiers to fight for our country how can we be selective and take honorable men like Darren Manzella off the line? It is nothing short of embarrassing to show our close-mindedness in such a way to the world. “Don’t ask, don’t tell,” doesn’t even make sense as a phrase. Does it mean that you can be gay as long as you don’t talk about it? What does that matter? Laws like this are made by people who have never really interacted with the gay community because if they had they would know that gay people would not go around throwing themselves at straight people. I don’t think that gay people would act any differently except maybe be a little more comfortable and happy. My gay friends tell me all the time that they can tell within seconds of meeting someone if they are gay or not and if they are not they treat them like a friend. How is having a gay man in the Army any different than having a woman in the Army? When your life is on the line you aren’t really thinking about love connections but just getting out of a situation. I would feel better knowing the person next to me fully as a friend than to have them hide major parts of their life from me but I have to rely on them. This law is only hurting the Army not helping it.
Don’t ask don’t tell, one of the biggest pieces of legislative BS ever brought into existence. How does someone’s sexual preference hinder him or her from performing their duties? Obviously, if it was a problem, they would change their career field or not go into it in the first place. I’m really just not sure how don’t ask don’t tell came about. What made people think it was okay to prohibit people from being who they are, especially in the military. Wouldn’t it be best for everyone in the military if people were allowed to talk about what makes them happy? If you’re in a war, don’t you want to share and talk about what makes you happy? And I don’t get how gay people could possibly be such a hindrance to a military unit. He or she is an able bodied person willing to go into battle. At this point, we need all the people we can get. We shouldn’t be picky about who can fight and who can’t. Do gay people feel any differently about terrorism or are they any less patriotic? And how is being homosexual and adequate reason for termination? My friend’s boyfriend tried to explain why he thought that gay people shouldn’t be in the military. He was saying something about they’d be all flamboyant and just put people at risk with their personalities or something. I was really to confused to know what exactly he was saying but I know it was wrong. When I was at home for break, my family was watching the news and something about gay people in the military came up. My father was in the military for over 10 years so we asked him if he would feel any differently about serving next to a gay guy; if he was any less comfortable. He said no. He didn’t care what secrets that guy had in the closet, that wasn’t why they were where they were. He said when it comes to combat, personal issues get tossed aside and you’re worried about your life and the lives of your squad, not whether the guy next to you has a boyfriend or not. And who do you call if you suspect homosexuality in someone? Is there a special unit that investigates gayness? Is that where all our taxpayer’s dollars are going because we aren’t seeing it anywhere else. I think this don’t ask don’t tell rule definitely needs to be put to rest. You aren’t any less of a person or a soldier just because you’re gay. You couldn’t even tell that the guy in the video was gay. People are all worried that gay men will be too wimpy to fight in combat but I didn’t see a wimpy bone in that guys body. This rule is ridiculous and old fashioned. We need to step out of our ignorance and give people a chance.
Surely, what happened to Darren Manzella is undoubtedly and obscene outrage. There should be no basis placed upon sexuality as to whether an individual may choose to fight for his or her country. To answer the first question, I knew this guy was homosexual initially from his picture on the video before it plays. It may be hard to believe because one might say well you know its about someone who is gay and after hearing his story its easy to go back and say I knew he was gall along. But even after the picture, from the first time he opened his mouth to speak, you can hear the homosexual type feminine accent and demeanor in which he talks. I don’t want to confuse this consumption with any bit of prejudice or hate towards homosexuals because it does not bother me at all, I am simply just stating the truth that yeah, this guy seemed gay to me from the jump. Whether or not it is easy to determine his sexuality is not the case, or whether or not he was gay while he was in the military as the subject the investigation centers itself around. The real problem is that his sexual orientation should not matter in the least bit when it comes to his desire to join the armed forces, or any other LBGT community member as well. The DADT policy is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. I do see that it makes sense for a LBGT to choose to abide by the policy as it may just benefit them in the long run to avoid scrutiny and other forms of ignorance towards homosexuality, but they should not by any means be forced to do so. I just find it completely insane for one to assume or make a correlation between the fact that someone might be gay and that somehow negatively influence their performance in the army or weaken the morale of the entire unit, which just makes no sense at all. The major problem I have is that it takes a lot of guts to enlist in the army. I find it ironic that one of the stigmas placed upon gay men is their “weakness” and “girly-like” behavior, yet they are the ones being kicked out of one the most frightening and life-threatening jobs one could ever do. Especially people who have an opinion about gays not being allowed in the military while they sit at home and watch the issues on TV while the “real men” are out in a foreign country placing their lives on the line at every split second for their country. The military is one of those organizations that should be taking the privilege to deny members, especially on something so insignificant as sexual orientation, when I know tons of people that would never in a million years join the army. Regardless, if you are gay or not and you want to fight for your country, you should be allowed. Period.
Lesbians, gays, trans, bisexuals, and any other type of “different” person in the world are entitled to their own believes and should be able to live their lives they way that they wish. However in saying this I do no believe that they should be given every single right that a straight person is given, this is mostly applied to marriage. Marriage is a sacred bond between a MAN and WOMEN, not a man and a man, or a women and women. That is written in the definition of marriage. I do not believe that gays and lesbians should not be allowed to be together, I just believe that they should not be allowed to be given the title of a married couple.
The Webster dictionary, the most prestigious dictionary in the world, states, “the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.” It is right there in the definition man and women. If gays and lesbians want to live together that’s great, fine be happy, but they should not consider them selves married. I do also believe that we should find a half way house for this issue. Why not find another term for them to be together under. No necessarily different then marriage, give them similar rights, life insurance etc, but just call it something else. Hell make up a new word I truly do not care, but they should be given certain rights that many married people do have because they are still Americans trying to live a good, successful life.
As for the article at hand here, the Darren Manzella story, I do think that people need to realize that there are different types of gays or lesbians. The flamboyant kind that everyone seems to pick on always gets generalized as fags or homos, but what about the ones that when walking down the street we do not even think are gay, like Darren. If I saw him walking down the street I would have never thought he was gay. In this case I feel that Darren being booted out of the Armed Forces is an outrage. It was not as if he was trying blow every other dude in his camp, he was simply doing what thousands of other straight men and women do, should be thanked for doing, serving the United States of America. Just because he loves another man he is kicked out form doing something ths supports all the other straight men and women, that just does not seem fair.
Gays can go and do there own thing and should be left alone, and unless causing harm or discomfort to those around them should be allowed to do the same things that other straight people are allowed to do.
This post, like many just makes me sad. I feel really sad that a man who was in Iraq for two tours, who clearly did a good job proven by his many promotions in only six years regardless of his sexual orientation gets dishcharged from the Army. Whether an honorable discharge or not I think the army needs to adapt to the socially changing America.I actually did not know that there was even a rule against homosexuality in the army regarding “don’t ask don’t tell’. I wonder if the same clause goes for women as well, or just men perhaps? I truly believe that homosexuality is not a threat in the army nor a cause of bad morale or assault. If anyone is harassed sexually be it a man or a woman to a man or a woman is only based on the said individuals morals, ethics and self control. It is not guided by sexual orientation and I do not think at all that those who are homosexual pose an extra threat to those that are hetrosexual in any way shape or form.
The numbers in the article are also astounding. The fact that the army would rather discharge LGBT individuals and spend two hundred million dollars to recruit and train their replacements is absolutely appauling. I agree with what Garver says in enforcing what is the law, but laws change and I certainly believe this one needs to. I also do not understand how an LGBT person can “weaken”” a morale of a unit? It makes absolutely no sense and I agree with homophobicphobic that the United States army is only using the ‘Morale” excuse because they are extremely homophobic.
What is even worse in this situation is that the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is like making your cake and eating it to. If you do not condone homosexual behaivior than do not have it in the army at all. If the military wishes to have the skilled and hardworkers they desire, regardless of their sexual orientation they should allow them to be openly gay during military time. Using their skills and employing them and making them keep a part of their identity a secret is just unjustifiable. This man risked his life for his country and you take it away after that because of his sexual orentation? It’s like using someone and then just throwing them away. How selfish and immoral are these people?
I personally think that “don’t ask don’t tell” should be done away with. We are a culturally changing and accepting society that the military needs to update with. LGBT individuals should have the same rights as hetrosexual individuals in the army, which is the right to be open about their sexual orientation.
For defending our country, I guess the military is pretty picky when it comes to who can and can’t die or protect our freedom. For years this policy of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” has been in effect in the US military and for years thousands of people protecting our country have been discriminated against. Why is it such a big deal if somebody is gay? Does the military really think being gay, bisexual, or transgender will lower the morale, good order, or discipline of a unit? I highly doubt it, along with many, many others.
In a 2008 Washington Post – ABC News poll, 75% of Americans said that openly gay people should be allowed to serve in the military. 72% of respondents in a 2006 Zogby International poll of military members who had experience with gays or lesbians in their unit said that the presence of gay or lesbian unit members had either no impact or a positive impact on their personal morale; 73% of respondents said that they felt comfortable in the presence of gay and lesbian personnel. So with numbers like these, why does the military continue with this outrageous rule? This is the reason polls are done: to find out what people think on the subject. And these numbers are pretty clear that the rule can be seen as pointless.
Since being introduced in 1993, more than 13,000 lesbians, gays, and bisexuals have been discharged from the army. That’s a huge number of innocent people willing to die for their country that have been told that they couldn’t by the government. So what happens next? The army goes out looking for straight men and women. Right from the article online comes this quote: “A 2005 government report found that about 800 of the 13000 discharged had skills deemed "critical," such as engineering and linguistics, and that it cost the military about $200 million to recruit and train their replacements.” So $200 million was just spent on getting rid of openly gay people and replacing them with people who may be secretly gay for all we know. Great use of money, right?
So not only is the US military wasting money this way, but they are discriminating greatly against innocent soldiers. Their freedom is in a sense being taken away and it’s completely wrong. Now, if there were numbers and statistics that a person who was gay somehow, in some way, disrupted the morale of the unit or had negative effects on the rest of the soldiers, than maybe this rule could stand; If it somehow affected the overall safety of our soldiers and military, than laws should be enacted to provide the safest possible environment for them. But nothing conclusive at all has come from this, and numbers show that people don’t seem to care. So let soldiers who are gay or bisexual fight for the US; really, what’s the big deal? If people are so against it than they can go overseas and die for our country.
When the issue of the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy is brought up, I think of the clip we watched in class of the comedian Chris Rock. He joked about being extremely thankful for all of America’s soldier’s simply because he was not about to go out there and fight. I feel similarly and thus am very proud of America’s army. Particularly with the recent passing of Veteran’s Day, I am more thankful than ever that millions of people are willing to risk dying every day to protect my freedom.
Therefore, to me, it does not even remotely matter the sexual orientation of America’s soldiers. So long as they are in the armed forces for the right reasons and are fiercely protecting the United States’ right to freedom, I respect and thank each and every one of them. I do not find it difficult to believe that this recent investigation by military officials found that the known presence of an LGBT soldier would not weaken a unit’s morale. I imagine that being in the army in a small unit would require extreme trust and a sense of family, regardless of any member’s sexual orientation. I would not stop loving and supporting one of my family members if they revealed that they were of a minority sexual orientation and so I see the army’s situation no different.
I think one of the most important things that Darren Manzella said in his interview was that, “[…] if any group can adapt to change, it’s the military.” Even if there were to be dissent among the members of our armed forces about the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy, if they truly wanted to serve our country properly and to the best of their ability, they would learn to accept their LGBT comrades. The military is often times cast in such a strong and masculine light that I suppose I can imagine how some would see that the presence of the stereotyped effeminate homosexual man would somehow decrease that strong and brave face that the military is supposed to have. However, after seeing Darren Manzella, he truly is a great example of just how extremely false that assumption is.
Since DADT’s inception, the country has lost some 13,000 honest, hard-working, courageous and patriotic soldiers to the absurdity that is the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy. Not only is this morally irresponsible, but clearly it is a fiscal problem too. Given the current state of America’s crippled economy, we cannot afford to be spending $200 million on replacements for discharged LGBT soldiers who are literally no different than those replacing them.
Overall, I find the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy to be severely limiting to the United States’ armed forces. The military, and indeed the U.S. cannot afford to be losing over 2,000 troops per year to this discriminatory policy is both irresponsible and racist. Thu U.S. military needs to stand up for what it truly believes in: freedom; and let whomever wants to proudly serve the country to do so—freely.
To be perfectly blunt, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is one of the most idiotic policies ever undertaken by this government. If you are willing to serve your country, willing to die for your country, and willing to do so honorably and subordinately, there is absolutely no reason you should not be allowed too. Just because you are LGBT does not in any way stop you from being able to perform the duties of a straight service member. This is a time when the military is having difficulty recruiting obviously due to the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we can simply not afford to be discharging servicemen for petty reasons. To look at it from a purely logistical standpoint, at a time when you are not able to meet your recruiting goals, it does not make sense to be discharging members when they have not been insubordinate or in some way failed their comrades.
What I was honestly surprised to hear was the stat that top military officials believed having openly gay members in the military would in no way decrease morale. I thought the macho image of the military would lead to homophobia, but I realize that was a naïve view on the issue. Having spoken with my friends in the service, the overwhelming majority do not care one way or the other if one of their fellow servicemen is gay. What concerns them more than anything is if they can rely on them to carry out their mission and to protect them in the heat of battle. Brotherhood clearly wins in that situation for the majority of soldiers, and if a majority believes a certain way, it normally only takes a short amount of time before there is a very minimal amount of people who will hold on to their extremist and intolerant views.
There is no question this will be repealed, it is just a matter of when that will take place. Most Americans would likely agree the sooner it is repealed the better. That is a very surprising for me to admit, because I remember only ten years ago when homosexuality was still largely frowned upon and discriminated against. The progress we have made during my lifetime alone is astounding in itself. There will always be a few people out there who will continue to hate and discriminate, just as there are still plenty of racists that remain. However, the phrase “homophobe” is rapidly gaining just as negative a connotation as “racist.” This just goes to show you the amount of progress that has been made when if you are accused of discriminating against gays simply because they are gay you are looked down on as ignorant, stupid, and backwards.
This blog entry is perfect timing, as yesterday was Veterans Day and I think I can speak for many when I say how thankful I am for all of the veterans and for those currently serving. I think anyone that joins the armed forces is an incredibly brave and honorable individual. They are courageous people who I am very thankful for. They fight for our country and we should all take the time to thank those in the armed forces. With that said, I think it is a disgrace that those who are willing to put their life on the line for our country, are told that they cannot because of their sexual orientation. If someone is willing to go through the rigorous training and preparation to be in the military, I think they should be allowed in regardless of their sexual orientation. Why does it matter if someone is gay? Their homosexuality is not going to have a factor when they are out overseas fighting for our country. The don’t ask, don’t tell policy is discriminatory. Those individuals should be able to express who they are.
I am assuming a big part of the don’t ask, don’t tell policy is because the military officials do not want soldiers to feel uncomfortable around soldiers that are openly homosexual. This boggles my mind, not only in this context, but in everyday life. Just because someone is gay, does not mean that they are going to hit on you, or think that you are attractive. Think of it from a straight person point of view. If you are a girl, do you hit on every single guy that walks by? And if you are a guy, do you find every single woman attractive and try to make a move? The answer is probably no. Homosexuals are not out to hook up with every man or woman. They are attracted to certain people just like everyone else. I think it is almost humorous that people think that every gay man is going to hit on every straight man. It just does not work like that.
When Darren said that 13,000 men and women have been discharged from the armed forces because of their homosexuality, I was shocked. There could have been 13,000 more brave individuals out there fighting for our country, but instead they were discharged because people are “uncomfortable”.
As for Darren and the other 13,000 people, I hope that they find success and happiness in another career until the discriminatory policy is abolished. And I hope that they know how brave they are for not only being in the military but for also being comfortable with themselves.
I am glad that they have finally come to their senses and realized that LGBT soldiers do not “weaken morale”. I hope that the don’t ask, don’t tell policy will soon be abandoned.
I am not a person that judges people by the way they look so I wouldn’t be able to tell whether or not Darren Manzella is gay or not just by looking at him. Now if I were to see the way he acts, or talks, then I might be able to make an assumption but still I wouldn’t hold anything against him either way. I think that is very wrong for the US Army to discharge this man for being gay. Even after studies have proven that officials do not feel as though people being openly gay affects the morale of the rest of the troops. I mean the man is a human being just like everyone else, why can’t he carry out the tasks asked of him like everyone else? I'm pretty sure it’s not like the man is trying to sexually assault or make anyone else in his group uncomfortable either. How could a gay man in the unit possibly weaken morale? I don’t understand why people are so prejudice towards things they don’t like which is really something that they themselves don’t understand and can’t relate too.
Also I think that it is a very bad idea to discharge this man for any reason because with the way things are going now, they may not be able to find people who want to fight for this hypocritical government. If the man wants to fight for his country there should be no premise in which you hold that from him, especially for something as low as dropping him because he is a homosexual. The truth is that probably some of the people that are fighting to keep homosexuals out of the military are homosexuals themselves. It’s just like preachers going out and saying don’t be gay it’s a sin when behind closed doors they are gay themselves. The hypocrisy is just disgusting in this country, I just don’t know what a person gets out of trying to tell someone or prohibiting someone from doing something that they themselves do.
Well anyway hopefully when it’s all said and done people will be able to accept each other for who they are and not pushing them away because they are different. Although that day may not be in my life time, I am still free to think about a world that is like that, or maybe travel somewhere where there is not prejudice or racism. It’s sad to think that a person can be kicked out of their religion solely based on their sexual orientation, is it really that serious?
In my response to don’t ask don’t tell rule, first off, I don’t think it matters that you’re gay and serving the military. Why should it matter and what could possibly happen if you’re gay? I’ve never liked the ruling, I feel like its discriminations at its finest. It’s terrible to think that the army or in fact, the military would really care if someone was gay. People cannot be themselves. They have to waste their lives away in a lie, hiding from their true selves, just to serve their country. I am against this price of stealth. Considering how many people will not give their lives away to the military, and how many people would give their lives away and are gay, should shock and made the military understand its current predicament. You, the military, are not making any logical sense.
I never knew that people were investigated for being gay. Sent a note that the military was watching your every move, checking your email, your family and friends…. Isn’t that stressful enough? Do you want your soldiers to be paranoid on the field, worried about the military “finding them out”? Doesn’t that make ALL the soldiers now endangered?
I also didn’t know that almost 13,000 soldiers have been discharged. What is the military thinking?!? Are you really going to discharge people and then get upset that you do not have enough soldiers? Military, get on the change bandwagon. This is a new era. America is no longer the old school country we used to be. It’s time to make some changes.
Now this male does not look like your typical gay guy. He hides it very well just by appearance. I don’t know how the military was even able to investigate him. But, that how stereotypes work. We don’t really know. If the military really wants to enforce this rule, then they need to investigate every soldier, every round, and every willing applicant. And even then, you are subject to some type of discrimination.
As long as you serve your country proudly and follow orders, then you should be fine. I see no problem with any LGBT serving their country. I wonder if the country took a vote, like seriously put this issue on the ballot, and make the country decide. I would be shocked if the “don’t ask don’t tell” ruling does not go away. It’s about time for a change.
I agree with Chuckie E. Cheese’s comment: “This is segregation of the army”. Have we gone in a circle and instead of schools chosen the military? Has America learned its lessons yet? I truly feel like we have not. The United States never make any sense with its laws and I feel like we haven’t learned anything.
Reading that military officials stated that having lesbian, gay or bisexual soldiers does not weaken the morale is surprising to see. But to also read that the military is discharging soldiers because of their sexual orientation is ridiculous. Does being any one of those (lesbian, gay or bisexual) make you any less of a soldier or better yet an American? And to think that those officials think that the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy should be abandoned shows that they accept that the country is in a state of change. Now if only the rest of the country could think that way.
What do the high ranking military officials think is going to happen if there are openly lesbian, gay or bisexual soldiers fighting among the rest of the soldiers? As I stated earlier, other military officials said that it wouldn’t hurt the morale. So what is it then? Because apparently the lesbian, gay and bisexual soldier’s fellow soldiers don’t mind them. Just like Manzella said, it pulled his unit closer together. Having to keep something a secret because you are afraid of getting kicked out of something can take a huge toll on you. When Manzella told his unit, he must have been able to free himself from the threat of someone finding out he was gay. When you tell something, rather than keeping it secret, the people you tell are more understanding. If you were to keep it secret, and those people found out, they may not be as understanding.
Why doesn’t the military want the public to know that there are lesbians, gays and bisexuals serving? Does this make our military look less “macho?” So, what! Everyone knows that there are lesbian, gay and bisexual people out there, why not just accept the fact that they want to serve their country. Since when did the armed forces become so picky? These people are hard working, honorable people that what to serve and protect their country. Now a days there aren’t that many people choosing the service as a career option. That’s why the military should keep all the recruits they can get, no matter their sexual orientation.
To think that the military has discharged thirteen thousand soldiers because of their sexual orientation is absurd. Of that thirteen thousand, it was said that eight hundred had skills that were critical to the armed forces; which cost the military two hundred million dollars to train their replacements. What I take from that is that costing the military is equivalent to costing taxes payers. I don’t know about you, but I am pretty mad that the military is cutting critical soldiers because of their sexual orientation and adding to this country’s already ridiculously high debt.
Do not ask. Do not tell… please article grabbed my attention once I saw the title and especially after I saw the video. Darren Manzella explains how it all started when he started to feel different the other little kids surrounding him. And later as he grow older we talk about when he enter the air force and started receiving emails and messages or calls that he was being investigated of may be being guy. At the moment he thought about it and came out and talked to his supervisor and that when he came out and said he was guy and that he had a partner and that it was hard to talk about he knew there was going to be consequences. Then he later explains the video that he was discharged after going public of his homosexuality. But the worse is not that he was discharge is that they put on his certificate that it was because of being homosexual. Personally I would not be able to determine if Darren Manzella was guy or not. Also personally I do not think that being gay or lesbian should be a problem to go and serve for your country if that what you want. I totally disagree that because you’re gay it weakens the morale of the soldier. This is why those that are gay and lesbian do not come out and tell about who they are because everyone considers them less then everyone just because there not straight. Think that the homosexuals should not have to hide what they are who they are just to fit in a couple retard requirements. What i really think is horrible is that yet they give him all the benefits but they destroy his certificate by putting in print that he was a veteran that was discharge because he was homosexual. I think that it not right that something should be done I think that people should think about thing before they do something. There is time when the air force is haunting down for men and woman to serve for the country and not everyone want to do it so who going to serve if they don’t allow those that are gay and lesbian. In a way i think is ignorant of them because they allow other races to go in but they don’t allow gay and lesbian white or color people fight for their country if they want to that is really bad. I think they should have to worry about people being gay or not because it there life there not bothering those that are straight so why get in to their business. So I strongly believe we should leave them alone and take care of ourselves and mined our on business.
Having a brother over in Iraq now, I do not think sexual orientation matters when it comes to defending this country. The ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell’ policy that is in stated as of right now, I believe goes against the constitution—the freedom of speech is violated when being open about your sexual orientation could affect your job status. Men and women can be discharged and left with no job and no benefits just for telling someone who they are. The interview with this solider was nice to see that everything worked out for him in the end. He was able to keep serving and still received his benefits for defending this country. I think that is a step in the right direction for the military, but I cannot help but wonder if the military only let it slid in his case because we are in the middle of a war. If we were not in a war, and did not need the immediate large numbers of soldiers to be enlisting, would they have discharged him? This is why the policy needs to dissolve. These men and women are fighting for our protection, and I do not see how being gay could compromise the defense system.
Knowing that the survey conducted said openly gay people in the military have no effect on the efforts and mindset of the corps, just goes to show how ridiculous and naïve it is to believe that gays will damage the protection of our serving men and women. It is not like gay people are more likely to hit on a person just because they are open about it. It just puts homophobic people’s minds at ease so they do not have to worry that some man might make a move on them. That just doesn’t happen enough to be concerned with it. Plus, gay people are just like straight people. You tell them you prefer heterosexism and they leave you alone. The ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell’ policy is a bit ridiculous if you really think about it. It basically says you can serve in the military and defend our country, a country that you love regardless of sexuality, as long as you are straight or pretend straight. Our country was founded on the principal of individualism and freedom, but people who are putting themselves on the front lines of wars defending those rights don’t even get them in their own country. It isn’t right. What does it matter whether the person is open about his sexuality or not? If the ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell’ continues to be a policy in the United States military, then the same rules should apply for heterosexual men and women. Any major sexual suggestions or appearance of liking someone of the opposite sex should be punished as well. It is hypocritical to only keep the gays from speaking about being gay.
Why is sexuality even an issue in the military? Why is it an issue in any employment position? The “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” rule in the military is absolutely ludicrous. All of these military men and women that have been honorably discharged because of their sexual orientation obviously spent time in the military. Even if there were issues where individuals of the same sex were having sexual relations it is no different than people of the opposite sex having sexual relations with one another. As long as it does not interfere with their abilities and their work then it should not be an issue.
A sexual orientation does not determine your abilities in the military. The “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” rule proves it. They do not care if the person is homosexual as long as they do not publically announce it. Darren Manzella talked about his experiences in the military and how he was open about it and still was a productive member of the military. The issue occurred when he announced his sexual orientation on national television. This discriminating rule gave his leaders no other choice than to discharge him from his duties. I do not blame the individuals who discharged him because the rules need to change. A case needs to be brought to the Supreme Court if no one else is stepping up to change this. There are absolutely no valid reasons for having this rule instated in our military. A homosexual individual is not any less capable than a heterosexual individual in the military or in anything else for that matter. Why is the military singled out as a part of the government that you are not allowed to be openly gay in? They allow homosexuals in political positions, in military citizen positions, in law enforcement positions; the list goes on and on. I think some people felt uncomfortable around homosexuals because of own sexual identity issues and were afraid to hear about someone being gay in the military so this rule was instated. It is time to break this rule from being part of the military guidelines.
In class Sam had everyone who knew someone who was openly homosexual raise their hand and I am not sure I saw anyone without a hand up. I have a feeling that this is what you would find with a good majority of people. I do not feel that the individuals that are homosexuals that I know are at all inferior in their abilities because of their sexual orientation. We need to find away to get the ignorant individuals to realize that this is unjust discrimination. I think it is important for individuals that are homosexual not to be afraid to be open about their sexual orientation and I think our society is moving in a direction where they won’t have to be afraid anymore.
This is a real touchy subject I believe. But, my cousin has been in the United States Marine Corps since he was 17. I actually just talked about this with him. My cousin is a sergeant in the United States Marine Corps. So he has a lot of people that work under him. I asked him if he ever had to deal with don’t ask don’t tell, or has anyone been gay in your troop? He answered by saying yes has had people under him that have been homosexual. He continued by saying that there are more gays in the military than people know. So when I read this article about the guy being discharged by being gay and coming out with it, I did not know that someone could get discharged by that. So I asked him could that really happen. He said yes it could and does happen. It is under the courts martial manual and there is an entire chapter that devotes to it. So I then I asked him if he believes in the don’t ask don’t tell policy. He said, sure just because of a person’s sexual orientation does not mean that they will be better or a worse service member. But, he then said if someone is openly gay it could be a hazard to the good order and discipline of a unit. So then I asked him if he thought if they unite or hurt the squad if you know they are gay? He said it depends on the guy. If the guy is good at their job then it does not matter if they are gay. But, if they do not perform well, then them being labeled gay is one more reason to be labeled as an outsider. So if my cousin does not care that there are gays in the military, I do not think that other people would care either. As long as they are dedicated soldiers and do what they are told and you know that they got your back through anything then all it is is another brother that you never had. So for the guy to be discharged I guess it is not a big deal because it was held in the correct manor and he got an administrative discharge which was deserved under the manual. If there is a whole chapter about they don’t ask don’t tell policy and I were gay, I would definitely read that and know what I can and what I cannot say. I first thought that this guy being discharged was wrong, but asking my cousin he said that he spoke out and said he was gay so that violates the don’t ask don’t tell policy.
It is very upsetting that $200 million dollars had to be used to retrain soldiers how to do the important things we already had soldiers to do. It’s more upsetting that we had to spend this money because these men and women who were replaced were lesbians, gays, or bi-sexuals. That is not a reason to kick someone out of the military! They are being brave enough, generous enough, and have more courage than most Americans to put their lives on the line to protect us. They are protecting these authorities who are kicking them out of the military. What does that say for them? The military is not just any job, it is risking your life for others. The others who are us sitting at our houses with family and friends, going out and partying, living a good life, and they’re over in these third world countries dying for us. So HOW does their personal sexual preference interfere with their jobs? They are not hitting on other guys or acting “gay,” they are being professional and doing their jobs. IT does not make sense to me, because of all people; they should be honored for doing what they are doing, rather than being belittled.
“Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” is a shockingly awful rule. Darren Manzella went to his superior to report what was happening to him and he was scared something bad was going to happen to him. Instead of his superior taking care of it, trying to help protect him (after all Darren has done going to Iraq and fighting for us), his superior ‘rats him out’ and has him put under investigation. What exactly is there to investigate that clearly has no affected his job.
I know there has been talk about letting gays into the military, and this article really shows me how undeserving our military can act. I know it is not the case, but doing that shows that they think they are better. If someone is wiling to risk his life for us, I’m all for it. Also, we’ve clearly invested a lot of money into these soldiers to do their jobs efficiently, which they have done nothing but. So, again, I just do not see how being gay all of sudden makes you unqualified. 13,000 soldiers are a lot of soldiers who are trained well in their area and have done nothing wrong, to fire for no reason other than their own personal lives, which is not a reason.
This is just another obstacle the United States needs to get through to make our country great. It is great, and I absolutely love our country, however sometimes the things that are done really make you think, ‘what the hell’!? It’s sad and I see how superiors see it could distract the other soldiers, and the gay solder could get picked on and harassed, but if he’s willing to take that chance, so should we.
The gay and lesbians have enough trouble in the world today, they don’t need to have to go through this don’t ask don’t tell crap that is going on in the US army. I don’t truly understand why you have to be straight to be in the army. At the end of the day everyone is fighting for the same cause and obeying the same orders. I guess some guys might be a little bit freaked out about a gay man sleeping in the bed next to them, but they go through all of this rigorous training so why cant they take the heat of having a gay man sleep 10 feet away from them. It is a stupid law that needs to be corrected.
Darren Manzella didn’t seem to me at all that he was gay until he actually said it. I’m sure a lot of his fellow soldiers were shocked to hear it. This doesn’t mean that these fellow soldiers hated the guy. Its one aspect of the guys life that is totally different. The soldiers probably looked at the Manzella as the brother the same way. The only thing fellow soldiers should be worried about is if the man next to them has their back not if they are gay. If I were in the army I would only care if they were loyal to me and if they had my back. If I knew they were gay I would tell them to not care what everyone else thinks just go on living your life.
I wish I knew how this law of don’t ask don’t tell even started. Was it because some random soldier or soldiers were offended that one of their fellow soldiers was gay? Or was it just because of sheer racism against gays and lesbians? My guess would be it was a bit of both. Some racist soldiers probably got offended that a gay man was serving with them and went to the higher officials. Either way what does it matter if you’re gay or straight in the Army? Does it mean that you are weaker then the other straight men or women? The whole don’t ask don’t tell makes no sense. This will not make our Army stronger if we weed out all the gays that are in there. They shouldn’t have to carry a burden around all day just because they are not aloud to tell anyone in the army they are gay. In the first place they probably don’t want to tell anyone because its hard enough coming out of the closet. Once they muster up all that courage to tell everyone, they can’t do it because they will get an honorable discharge. This law needs to change as soon as possible. We’ve come this far in the civil rights movement why cant we make another move toward equality.
I do not understand why the military is discharging gays, it just doesn’t make sense. Daren Manzella got an honorable discharge for homosexual conduct. How is having a relationship with a man back in Texas detrimental to the war effort? Manzella was a quality soldier that got several promotions during his tours in Iraq. He looks like a pretty intimidating dude who knows what he was doing in the combat zones. The article went on to say, “Since don’t ask, don’t tell was introduced, the military has discharged more than 13,000 lesbians, gays and bisexuals, according to the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. A 2005 government report found that about 800 of them had skills deemed “critical,” such as engineering and linguistics, and that it cost the military about $200 million to recruit and train their replacements”. The military is losing a tremedous amount of money and talent because of this bogus policy. As Sam said earlier in class, the military has already conducted research to find out whether having gays in combat units is detrimental to the rest of their fellow comrades. They found that, for the most part, gays serving in the military do not hurt the morale of the other soldiers. I guess the only reason the policy is still in effect is because the military is just following the law. The article finishes with, “The policy is not a military policy, and the Army has a policy because it is bound by current statute. If the law were potentially to change, the Army would change to enforce whatever the law may be”. So all that needs to get done now is for some legislation to pass and reverse this statute. I’m shocked at the way Manzella was harassed when he returned back home. He said he would receive threatening phone calls from people telling him that the military was investigating him. He had to face a lot of harassment when he was openly gay at home: “Manzella said he began receiving anonymous, harassing e-mails and telephone calls.
“They told me, ‘You are stupid, the Army is going to kick you out, but before they do, they are going to take your rank away and all your money away.’ ”
Manzella describes this time as one of fear and deep insecurity. No one who risked their lives serving in the military with the possibility of getting blown up on a daily basis should deserve this when they come back to their own country. The military needs all of the manpower it needs to win the war in the middle east. Its just stupid to discharge all of these people when they clearly are needed in the combat zone.