The Affirmative Action Headache of the Century

91599 responses to “The Affirmative Action Headache of the Century”http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldinconversation.org%2F2009%2F11%2F14%2Fthe-affirmative-action-headache-of-the-century%2FThe+Affirmative+Action+Headache+of+the+Century2009-11-14+06%3A00%3A49Sam+Richardshttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.racerelationsproject.org%2F%3Fp%3D915

1. 
   joanna vergara

   November 18, 2009 at 2:22 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

   I am almost positive that if someone referred to me as tint of coffee I would laugh in their face. This is completely hilarious! They’re upset at being discriminated again because people do not refer to them as what they wished to referred to as, but calling someone a tint of cinnamon in any language is ridiculous! However it amazes me at how behind in acceptance they are compared to the United State. I have always just assumed that since there was such a large majority of blacks within Brazil that they would be more accepting. I guess I was wrong.
   The discrimination taking place in these universities surprised me greatly when I listened to the video. How professors themselves think that if you come from the ghetto then you are not fit to learn or fit to be taught! How dare someone say something like that? I understand that their development of acceptance is this country years ago, but still they need to learn that people are equal no matter .01% of gene that make up our outer appearance.
   Of course there is still discrimination left in the world today, and yes we need to see that we still discriminate against each other, but I never realized that it was still as bad as it was years ago. Maybe it is just my being blissfully ignorant and not seeing what is right in front of my face, but I truly thought that people of all colors would not being discriminated against in school of all places! How can someone still do that, to actually sit there and say because of the color of your skin I will not teach you? You are a teacher!
   Something of pure interest was when it said that the further up the social ladder you go the less black you will see, and that there was never a black leader. What amazes me is how much more time they have in development. We as a country just got a half black leader, and blacks have not been in a position of power for that long. Therefore, Brazil still has plenty of more time to go before they witness someone of dark skin in a seat of power.
   To stray from the topic of blacks in the social ladder; how exactly do people of color expect to become equal if they have so many names for their skin tones. I am sorry but I could not remember over a hundred different types of skin tones for one group of people. Either you black, tan, brown, white, or whatever, not tint of cinnamon. Before, there can be any equality people need to start looking at themselves and figuring what racial group they are a part of instead of making up their own.

2. 
   Wait, What?

   November 18, 2009 at 3:06 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

   As American we always hear about how wrong our country is and how compared to other nations we are so far behind when it comes to race relations. Earlier in the semester there were journal entries about how in Europe mixed race couples were more accepted, and that we should, as a country, strive for that kind of existence. This goes to show how self involved to US is. We aren’t the only country in the world that is dealing with these issues, but we never talk about the fact that people in other countries are struggling to coexist peacefully as well. I think we could learn things from each other. Obviously having universities establish quotas for the number of black and brown people that are enrolled is ridiculous and doesn’t help the situation. All it really does is breed more contempt between different racial groups. If a white student isn’t accepted to the university, they will blame it on the black and brown people who “took their spot” because of affirmative action quotas that are Implemented in that institution. The black student in the video talked about how people of color were excluded from different majors because they were “intellectually inferior” to their white counterparts. Imagine how angry you would be if you were one of the few people from you are to get into college and you weren’t allowed to study what interested you most. If I was in that situation I wouldn’t be too happy with my white classmates and instructors, because they would be able to do what they want, and I wouldn’t have that liberty.
   So enforcing quotas doesn’t help the situation, but ignoring it doesn’t either. We live in “the land of the free” where people can supposedly achieve anything if they try hard enough. You want to go to college? Well you can, if you try really, really hard and earn good grades. But what about the money? There are so many talented students in this country that won’t make it past high school because they don’t have to money or the resources and connections to get them where they want to be. What happens to those kids, are they not entitled to the same American dream as those kids who come from money and privilege? We need to do something, but what will fix this problem. Do we take away from privileged white people to give to people of color? No because that’s communism, which doesn’t work. So we’re stuck in a crappy situation with increasing tension between the haves and have nots.
   On a totally different track, I skimmed the list of terms that the Brazilians use to describe themselves racially, and I was both amused and confused. The first term that caught my attention was Polaca which means both a person with polish features as well as prostitute. Why would someone self identify as a prostitute with Polish features, unless of course they were a prostitute with Polish features, but is there really a large enough population to warrant its own term? Also the term Verde seems kind of crazy to me, I’ve never seen someone with a greenish complexion, but then again I’ve never been to Brazil, maybe they have green people running through the rain forests that I’m unaware of.

3. 
   PSU Princess

   November 18, 2009 at 3:10 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

   While reading the blog about affirmative action in Brazil, it was easy for me to see some similarities that relate to our situation in the United States, but some differences occur as well. I think that affirmative action is a good thing because it allows people of different races and ethnicity groups who are discriminated against or who are not given a fair chance to an opportunity to do things that would not necessarily come their way. This could be from going to college, to getting a job, and also obtaining a house. What really struck me was the numbers and statistics that are occur in Brazil that are much different than in the United States. Since black and brown people are 84% of the populations, I would have thought that discrimination would not have been a problem. Just like the U.S. however, they mostly make up the people who are living in poverty. It just makes me think how such a huge part of a countries population can be so held down like they are in Brazil. I understand why they are looked at in such a certain way though because it is the same way blacks are sometimes looked at in United States. Since over half of the slaves that were sent out of Africa ended up in Brazil and South America, it is no wonder that they make up such a huge part of the country. But this is also why they are discriminated against. People in Brazil still see them as the slaves they once were, and still think that they can repress them. It happened in the United States, so why would we be stupid or ignorant enough to think that it could not happen in other countries?
   I do agree with the statement at the end of the blog that talks about all the different ways that people in Brazil classify themselves when it comes to their race or ethnicity. I believe if they have 143 different ways of describing themselves, there is clearly a lack of knowledge in the race relations department. It seems like no one really knows how to classify their own background and race. It may be because the issue is not being brought up or taught to the kids in school. It seems like many these classifications are how people would describe their skin color. In the United States, there are different colors of skin, but we try to lump people together in categories to make it easier for many purposes; especially for avoid a situation like this one in Brazil. I know it is not the right thing to do, but it just happens to be the way things are here. I think Brazil is heading in the right direction however with enforcing these affirmative action laws to help get people out of the slums and start making something of their lives.

4. 
   Repair Man Man Man..

   November 18, 2009 at 4:00 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

   This story is very interesting because it seems like an exaggerated copy of our own past in the United States. I can’t believe there are that many names for which Brazilians call different races in their country. I can’t imagine living in a country where I couldn’t tell somebody my race, because it was too confusing to know. Brazil is just a couple decades behind the United States in their rights movement. 2.2% of the student population in Brazil is black and 84% of the population has some sort of African background. Blacks are denied equal education in Brazil, too. This sounds a lot like the United States’ situation decades ago. I can sort of see what the one guy in the article is saying about it being more of a problem of poverty than it is with race. This is about poor people not getting a chance to further their education and better their lives. The woman in the article said she always thought she would work at a shop, get married, and become pregnant. Coming from the United States where opportunity is for the most part equal, it is sad when that is all this woman can expect of herself. The problem with this is the fact that most of the poverty stricken people are of African background and these are the people being discriminated against. I’m not sure how deeply integrated the idea of racism and discrimination is in Brazil, but I think quotas and affirmative action programs might be the only way to turn it around. Many people might call out reverse discrimination, which happens in the United States now. In the grand scheme of things, however, it would be good for the country. I don’t think that many people are directly effected by reverse discrimination in the United States, so I don’t see that many people being directly effected in Brazil. Discrimination will still exist with quotas and affirmative action, but they will greatly relieve it. With quotas and affirmative action in place, Brazil would be able to work towards more equal rights and less racism. With that said, the system would be very difficult, because of the many classifications of race in the country. 134 different classification promises it to be almost impossible to know whether each group is being treated the same as all the others. The article says that as you look further up the social ladder in Brazil, the less you see black people. In the video, it said in Brazil’s entire history, there has never been a black leader. With 84% of the population being of African background, this is almost unbelievable. Brazilian society needs to take steps in the direction of equality, which I think affirmative action can help do.

5. 
   lee

   November 18, 2009 at 4:38 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

   I think there is more racial tension in Latin America than there is in the U.S. Mainly because there are three core groups of people that have to co-exist. You have the Europeans, Africans, and the Indigenous populations and they are all playing “King of the Hill”. In the U.S., we have basically killed off the natives, for the most part, so they are not a substantial part of the race equation. In Latin America the natives are active participants in the race question. Take Evo Morales, the president of Bolivia, for example. He is of indigenous ancestry and his policies are always facing opposition from the established Spanish elite in the government. But Brazil has never really gone through a Civil Rights Movement like the United States did. Most of the Africans slaves that were transported to the Americas went to Brazil. It was the last country to abolish slavery in the western hemisphere, in 1888. The article mentioned that Brazil has the largest population of blacks in the world next to Africa. Brazil is also one of the countries that have the biggest disparity in wealth. So people of color in Brazil are stuck in this poverty because they came from slavery, while the whites came as franchised citizens. People of color in Brazil also face discrimination, similar to the Jim Crow laws in the United States. A man that sells insurance is told to take the stairs instead of the elevator in order to reach his client in a building. A college student is treated inferiorly by her professors, because she is black and they do not ‘comprehend’ topics like philosophy. The State is integrating a program of Affirmative Action that will hopefully increase the mobility of some people of color. There’s no way that this policy will make a big difference, though. People of color currently make up 2.2% of the student population but over half of the population of the country. I guess the whites in the government just expect them to stay in the slums and not threaten the careers of white Brazilian students. The whites in power are saying that the Affirmative Action policy will cause reverse discrimination, like critics in the United States. A Brazilian Congressman said, “What are you going to say to a teenager who goes to do a university entrance exam and gets a high mark, but doesn't get through, but another teenager has passed with a much lower mark because they have a dark skin?” Trying to better the lives of people of color starts with education, but it will take many years before it will make a lasting impact. The man in the video said it best, “People are confusing racial equality with co-existence”.

6. 
   Alien In America

   November 18, 2009 at 4:38 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

   As a Brazilian myself, I find this particular blog very misleading. As listed by Sam, Brazilians have several names to name their race. My grandmother is from Bahia, I visit there every year and it is the black capital of Brazil. The main reason is because its the port in which the slaves came in, you know the part of the video where they show capoeira? That’s the market. Underneath it is where the slaves were brought in a kept until they were brought up to the market to be sold.
   The guy who says he was made to take the elevator was not made to take the elevator because he was black, it was because he is not part of the official middle class. Brazilians don’t discriminate because of color, they discriminate because of social class. It so happens that the people in the low social class are mostly black and the reason for it being majority black is because the country is majority black!
   What this video was not showing is the famous people in Brazilian television and radio. The most popular types of music in Brazil such as samba, funk, (nothing like the American funk), and pagode, all come from people of color. There are biracial couples on the popular telenovelas, I have to see that in an American soap opera.
   Now, you know how Americans consider Obama black? In Brazil, he can be anything. He can be considered about half of the races listed in the blog. My cousin is half black and half white, in my family was call him “moreno” but we also call someone who in America would be called “tall dark and handsome white guy” -“moreno.”
   Another thing that people need to understand about Brazil is that it’s a even bigger melting pot than America. Most black people are located in the north, where their ancestors came in from America. In the south you get all the Polish, German, and Italians, where many cities only speak those languages and not Portuguese. In Brazil we also have the largest population of Japanese people after Japan.
   There is no discrimination of race. Now when you look in the Brazilian social class system, the income gap is immense and society is set up where the poor get poorer as the rich get richer. Lula, the president, has been working hard to close the gap and the income gap has never been so small. He is helping the poor get a head start and keep the rich where they are. If you look rich then people will respect you.
   Once I walked into a store dressed in jeans, t-shirt and flip flops. I was ignored by the sales person. A couple of weeks later I walked in the same store in a summer dress and heels. I was immediately approached my a sales person. It wasn’t because of my color, it was because of the way I dress. People dress up to go to the grocery store! I think that the guys dreadlocks were the reason he was told to take the stairs. He is a business person, he needs to look clean and cut and as a Brazilian I don’t think dreadlocks help him achieve that look.

7. 
   Rocky: ADRIIIIIIAAAA

   November 18, 2009 at 7:17 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

   The situation in Brazil is really very interesting. It definitely doesn’t seem like its fair to let blacks into schools because they are black. I think that the professor mentioned in the BBC article makes a good point. The distinction between being poor and black is key. The poor of the country are mostly black apparently, but when you ask the people to identify themselves with a racial group or skin color, you get about 150 types of skin color! That is insane. In America we have, what, less than 10 “skin color” classifications? Native American, Hispanic, Latino, African American, White, and not too many more are all I can think of. Brazilians said they were one of probably 10 shades for each color raging from yellow to brown to mocha or black or white or red or whatever the hell they could think of it seems like. So, yes, evidently the lack of blacks holding professional jobs and being in positions of power is very telling against discrimination. Maybe equal opportunity employment measures should be put forward? The schools issue, and I agree with the one professor when he says that money is the issue. Poor people can’t place their kids in high level or higher quality education facilities and therefore there kids can’t do well on the college entrance exams. Something should be done to make that kind of education more affordable or an overhaul on the public schools in poor areas is in order.
   These kinds of problems never have one solution. It seems as though making a small quota for some universities would be a good idea. It also seems like they just need to try to help poor people out a bit more instead. If the Brazilians truly are unaware of racism then the quota thing may be a bad idea. However the prejudice and discrimination that seems evident in job diversity speaks otherwise. At the very least some sort of practice of equal opportunity is in order, with punishment or reprimands for unequal treatment after hire. There are going to be two sides to every argument, that’s why they are argued. The middle ground has to be found here, and concessions have to be made somewhere to solve the issue. I think that aggressive affirmative action is going to fail as well. You cannot introduce and extreme (and 20% quotas seem extreme) measures without substantial recoil from the opposition, especially on this heated of an issue, which they said is traced back hundreds of years. Slavery has made a big fucking mess of the world, some places more than others maybe, but nevertheless it has to be acknowledged. We have to pay the price for what happened before and be mindful of what our current actions may do to future generations. I think that is the burden of every official.

8. 
   Jupiter's Crunc

   November 19, 2009 at 10:38 am | Permalink | Log in to reply.

   After reading the article “The Affirmative Action Headache of the Century” I was once again blown away by the amount of racism that occurs outside of United States. Before entering into this class I had a preconceived notion that racism only occurred here in America, Sociology 119 has helped me correct that idea. The main topic in the article written by Sam Richards is Brazil’s new policy that poor black or mixed race students should hold 20% of all public college positions. This has been done to try and end the inequality shown in Brazil’s society. This new policy has been met by both strong support and also angry opposition, with people screaming reverse racism.
   Those supporting the policy are doing so because the obvious inequality is being faced in the country. The public school system is looked at as almost a joke, and most universities, public or private, were only accepting people that were from private secondary school. These student’s from private secondary schools were obviously ones from families with a higher than average income. Those with hope in this policy are hoping that this assistance from the state will one day turn Brazil into a unified culture not segregated by race.
   Those out there fighting opposition of this new policy are screaming reverse racism. They are yelling for the same arguments that you hear here in America, “Why should someone less qualified get a position at a college over the higher quality prospect?” Although I can see where they are coming from because I was once at this stage of thinking, they are oblivious to the fact that these people are not on a level playing field. With the lack of good primary and secondary education, without assistance from the state, there would be no change in the current society’s look.
   A point also brought up against this new policy is that fact that it will be bringing racial tension to a country that has not been currently faced with such a problem. The point they are missing with this argument is that there is not racial tension because the people are the top are happy as can be. Once those people at the top start getting worried or feel threatened, that is when you hear a public outcry.
   In my opinion I find it fascinating the amount of race types found on the 1976 Brazilian census. 134 different racial classifications! I find it hard that a country of people who cannot even definitively classify themselves could have this much racial inequality. I do believe that this new policy being implemented is a tad bit drastic, however, without knowing actual stats it might be a fairly conservative measure. I feel it’s a great idea to get the country on a level playing field much like America has done within the past 50 years. I hope when Brazil’s Supreme Court votes on this matter in the coming years that they accept this new policy or adapt one based on similar ideas.

9. 
   Ms. Realistica

   November 19, 2009 at 12:14 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

   The Race Dilemma
   So what if people decide to color or lighten their skin? Is that our place to judge? Today a lot of people seem to be “trying” to change their race by either using tanning creams or tanning bed to darken their skin or Lightening creams to lighten their skin. Is there something wrong with that? Absolutely not! I am not a user of any of these products but I do respect anyone who does. We are all in charge of our bodies and we do what we want with them, so why should we be criticized on choices that are not harmful and proud-fully made. If someone chooses to lighten his or her skin, than sobeit.
   But I have to say that one thing I don’t like seeing is a girl, out on the residence hall lawn trying to tan herself. I think it looks so stupid and absurd! Some people just go too far with trying to improve their looks in an instant. I am not an advertiser of these products nor will I degrade them but I do think that God made us a certain color and we should just stick to that color. But, everyone is given free will and we will choose whether or not we want to.
   I would also like to talk about the other story about racism in Brazil. Okay, those people are CRAZY!! I thought our government was stupid for just diving us by color in about 7 groups; the Brazilian government has about a gazillion color groups that it divides the “races” in! It is just ridiculous. I understand that this is for the better since they are using this chart to construct affirmative action, but it is just too confusing. This project is not going to go far because there are so many colors people could use to identify themselves. Some are like the color pink, or bronze, or cashew, etc. It’s just really crazy stuff.
   And I would have to disagree with Mr. Richards. If we just all become white, that will not solve the difference between us. If this happens, the real white people will feel insecure and want to take blood tests and samples, eye and head measurements and other sorts of things! Not only that, people like me (yes I am colored) will not change my color, whether it is for the better or worse. I should not have to assimilate, conform to any of the world’s ways just to fit in and feel liked? It would not be fair to the colored people because that is just proclaiming that whites are the superior race and that is why everyone would have to change to that color. I just really think that would be unfair and wrong!

10. 
    La la

    November 19, 2009 at 12:49 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    This article is very interesting to me because, personally, when I sit in my discussion group I am wondering whether other countries have issues with race like we do here in America. I never really thought to ask because I just assumed they did not because America is the only country referred to as “the melting pot” but Brazil is definitely a country that a bunch of different races make up and now I see how it does have racial issues. It was so weird to read all the different identifiers and honestly I would not know where to categorize myself especially since my skin tone changes drastically due to seasonal seasons. I can’t believe someone actually took the time to even make that list. It seems ridiculous to me that people would even waste their own time thinking about all this skin tones. And then to classify people accordingly. I wish people could see the individual and not the color of the skin covering the body. Our bodies are just a shell for our being and that is the important thing to realize. The color of our skin should have nothing to do with the way we are treated or the way we treat others. I’m afraid, however, that it will be a very very long time until we can all see people that way. It may never happen to be honest. Maybe it is just never meant to happen. Or maybe it is people who have given up worrying about it, like me that are just hurting the process. I guess there are two ways to help or hurt the issue. One way is to make a big deal about it and take a stand. Make sure everyone is accepted through political correctness and affirmative action. This way has its pros and cons but the second way does as well. The second way is much more passive and it is simply moving away from the issue all together and dropping any history or feelings that go along with it. The problem is that people are torn between which way really works because the people that are set in one way can’t understand how the other way could work too. It is an uphill battle and no matter what you do or don’t do, you are affecting the outcome. That is so weird to think about. I am just realizing that everything I do or most likely don’t do affects everything, in a very small way of course, but it still is shaping everything that makes up society. Its weird that this way of looking at things can really be applied to any aspect of your life or any controversial issue, even those I don’t even know about. Since I went a little off topic I would just like to say that this article was eye opening to me that the whole world is affected by race relations and that is something I am glad to now know.

11. 
    TheUneducatedHypocri

    November 19, 2009 at 1:00 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    That is a long list of descriptive classifications. It is interesting to know that this list is a list of the classifications that the Brazilian people use to classify themselves and not the Brazilian government’s list. After reading the list it is clear that there is not just white and black. There is black and white and everything in between including tint of cinnamon, black of a lighter hue, and even greenish. Well I think Sam is right, you would need a supercomputer to solve this with affirmative action. But on a more serious note, I think something definitely needs to be done. Maybe affirmative action is not the best choice, and unfortunately I don’t have any ideas, but something needs to happen. Every person should have an equal right to be educated. I think that is easy enough to agree on that it shouldn’t matter what your color, even if it is greenish, you should have a chance at getting into a school. Seeing the list of 134 classifications makes it easy to how it could be difficult to right a piece of legislation dealing with affirmative action. Seems like it would be easiest to say: “If you are not white then affirmative action applies to you.” In the legal section of the BBC article the point came up about intelligence. If a white person scores a higher on and entrance exam than a person of color but is denied because the school has to reach a quota, is that fair? And of course it doesn’t sound fair at all. I am not even sure how to handle that problem, but maybe we have to take a step or to back so that society can take a step forward. I just don’t know. It seems almost justified though when you listen to the YouTube piece. It was only 2 percent of the student population that is black. And then on top of that low number throw in the fact that some of the professors are racist and feel that because someone is comes from the ghetto they cannot study certain subjects because of an intellectual deficit. It seems pretty rough to me. It is also interesting to note that with so many people of color that there has never been a black governor. Definitely looks like racism to me. The BBC article sheds a little light on this, though, mentioning that many poor people do not have access to good educations and most of the poor people are people of color. It is without a doubt hard to impose some type of affirmative action when the people of a country don’t really know what they are terms of color and race.

12. 
    platypus

    November 19, 2009 at 2:21 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    I found this post to be very interesting, especially with the chart of categories at the end. I think that having quotas in universities is important, because, like Professor Marcela Paixao in Brazil says, “When you have universities – principally the most prestigious ones which are the public ones – so closed to presence of the Afro-descendent population, this means these professions will also continue to be exclusive to a certain group of people for a very long time.” He makes a very good point. If poor (and/or black) people are not given the chance at furthering their education, then they will never have the opportunities to rise up the social ladder.
    It was very interesting to see how Brazilians broke themselves up into such an absurd amount of racial categories. I can understand how there would be an “affirmative action headache” within the country of Brazil, because the people cannot even identify what race they are themselves, let alone the government and school systems that decide on having specific quotas to fulfill.

    The list of one hundred and thirty-four race categories blows my mind. I especially got a kick out of “Avermelhada (reddish, with blood vessels showing through the skin).” These descriptions are so incredibly specific. We might as well start dividing ourselves up into different race groups like freckled, pimpled, or dimpled. There are so many variations and shades of white and tan that it is no wonder why the Brazilians would be confused as to their own racial identity. At least here in the United States we just say white, black, Hispanic, or Asian. The choices in Brazil are as endless as paint chip options at Home Depot! Cor-firma (”no doubt about it”), Jambo (like a fruit the deep-red color of a blood orange), and Regular (regular; nondescript) confused me. Many of the categories had the same descriptions as well, which again, complicates everything.

    I think that the Brazilians need to recognize that they are all so mixed that they cannot even distinguish themselves as just white or black anymore, so they should just get rid of the affirmative action policy in their universities and just label everyone as Brazilian. It does not make sense for them to discriminate against Africans and Indians, because there is an extremely likely chance that they have African or Indian blood in them, especially with these race descriptions about being “dark”-something or “light”-something or “mid”-something. They are just dancing around the issue and trying to disassociate themselves from these indigenous people.

    The video posted showed various kinds of people with a ranging skin colors. Brazil should embrace the diversity of its population and stop trying so hard to separate them into distinct groupings. It is like trying to separate rainbow sprinkles or snowflakes.

13. 
    Luabela

    November 19, 2009 at 8:38 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    ohh boy! So many choices…i would have absolutely no idea which one to pick!

14. 
    AgentOrange

    November 19, 2009 at 9:24 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    To start off, people should think twice about the “situation” in the US before they complain, because frankly, the “situation” in Brazil just completely undermines the race issue we face here. Or do we even face one as bad as some places? At least people of color are not denied anything, per se. I mean, it may be “harder” to get to the same point as a white man, for a person of color, but it can be done. In fact, after Obama, nothing is impossible!
    So Brazil’s diverse culture is so racially impacted by all the different races that they have that it is just insane. The fact that there are over one hundred races being classified, you can bet that a fair amount of those categories are used on a day-to-day basis. When thinking of the US, there’s white, black, Asian, Native American, and probably brown people. When compared, you realize that racism in the US is very minimal, although the impact can be devastating.
    Another point is that maybe Americans would realize this and appreciate it if their media wasn’t so corrupt that all they see is the odd kitty stuck in a tree waiting to be saved by a whole fire brigade. That, in my humble opinion, is absolutely ridiculous for national news. This is especially true when news corporations located in “enemy” territory are now covering the “real” stuff going on in the US, and doing so intensively. In fact, the US relies on its enemies so much, that without them, the economy could very possibly collapse again! This is not news for anyone but an ignoranus. This is a very big reality check to know that neighboring countries’ news are being broadcasted to people thousands of miles away, when you, the neighbor, don’t know anything and don’t want anything to do with it. The reason I can say this is because the media leans towards the peoples’ liking, and obviously, if people wanted to see the truth in what racism, segregation, terrorism that really goes on, both in and out of state and country, the media would change to show just that. But this is the sad reality we live in, with kittens being rescued, children saving squirrels, and grown men helping an old lady cross the road, is all we want to see for the most part. Oh, and don’t forget what those celebrities are wearing and who they are dating.
    The problem is that being put aside as a person of race, in your own country, and be denied those things that you, as a citizen, should ultimately have is a disgrace to humanity. People not being allowed to do have a representative in their own government is a very dooming proposition that not only kills the morale of the people living it, but makes major problems. Their anger will not go unnoticed, especially in a politically unstable country like Brazil, which has a lot of potential, but not a lot of candidates. The reason why there aren’t many candidates is that the candidates aren’t there to represent their people, but their personal interest. A very saddening issue in 2009.

15. 
    Carl

    November 19, 2009 at 9:43 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    I had no idea about the racial controversies in Brazil before reading this blog today. It really is a shame that America virtually pays no attention to the problems of other countries. The public would never know about incidents like this without actually searching for the articles on the internet or some special type of news station. America is so full of itself; it’s only worried about making a huge deal on the racial inequalities here while it is much MUCH worse in some other parts of the world.
    The problem here is that Brazil’s society is composed of almost entirely black people or people of African descent, but the government is run exclusively by white people, as are the rest of the higher up positions in the society. Now they are trying to set up the education to be equal, to some extent, between everyone by setting quotas in the colleges to bring in black and indigenous students. I guess this is fair to some extent except in the case where, like the BBC article said, a white student with a higher score on the entrance exams is denied access to the university because another student with a lower score takes the spot because they are being helped under this new policy. Now this is clearly unfair both ways in that the student with the higher score who actually deserves the spot cannot further their education and the person with the lower score may not be able to handle the work and could eventually fail out. Who wins in that? Now we have an upset white person and a bad rap for the POC (person of color- as Sam say). What should be done is equal opportunity in the lower levels of education so that when it gets up to the college and university levels the more intelligent person will get the spot no controversies. No disrespect to anyone but you can’t force an unintelligent person into a position where they won’t be able to perform properly or to the expected standard. I mean you can only do so much for a person but if they choose not to study hard and get a high score or the exams, why should they be guaranteed a spot over someone who is clearly more intelligent? Got me.
    Finally I wish to discuss the outrageous ways people look at themselves via the 1976 Brazilian Census. Is it a lack of intelligence that causes these people to classify themselves the way they did, or what? I mean polaca or prostitute? How can you consciously racially classify yourself as a prostitute? Or how about verde which is green. Or alverenta which is shadow in the water. I'm sorry but I actually laughed at that one. What is that even supposed to be? I thought we were talking about race, not random colors and phrases.

16. 
    Lilly

    November 20, 2009 at 1:21 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    The list was very interesting. Hmm… I was impressed with the artistic and creative ways they looked at their own skin. There was beauty in those words as well as judgment and classification. There was not a line of black and white, as Sam pointed out in the early part of the class. We are very bad at putting people into boxes and judging where they should go. People very often just look like people. But it takes a conscientious eye to see the subtleties of the human skin. It is conscientious… and artistic. I felt like I was reading a list of paints at a paint store, judging their variances and considering which would work best with a project I had in mind. I was very sympathetic and approving of this way of looking at things. It is unlike how I see myself, since I have never attempted to put into words just what kind of "white" my skin happened to be. I've never noticed my skin to be a pinkish color overlaying an easy tan that works well with dark greens, browns, and reds in some seasons and darker pinks in the summer. This is different from my other siblings even as they are different from each other. Perhaps this is something we can only notice about ourselves in reference to those closest to us. Sam's comment that this shows a confusion about race identity and how affirmative action would be difficult in this setting seems like it could hold some weight, but simultaneously, perhaps affirmative action would not work there as we know it. The categories are too numerous. The tactics would be different. The goal shouldn't be to draw the lines we know so we can know the best ways to fix them. Giving them our problems so we can help them with them isn't going to work well at all. It won't work. So the language and context of discussing the race problems needs to be considered and this perspective on skin color and hierarchy, while stereotypical in some ways (though on a broad spectrum), can be turned into a lovely way of considering how each person is different in a country where many different back grounds and cultures are at work. The difficulty in actually describing skin color is very real. I don't think I can think of many examples in writing where it is done unless it was to describe someone's perfect skin or used it as a way to pin point their character. That association (like a skin color/ polish for a prostitute) should be removed but the value of subtle differences should not be. It would be an interesting study to see the gradual and very real growth over time for skin color to be associated with moral character. Logically, it does not make sense. I seem to remember Sam talking about it being a western construct that was developed to justify slavery but I would imagine its existence was very subtle in its emergence.

17. 
    Chad Ochocinco

    November 20, 2009 at 2:22 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    In response to the affirmative action article concerning Brazil, I think that this seems like a very complicated issue. The enormous black population in Brazil has obviously been discriminated against, and it seems there is not much racial equality. The fact that the population is about 80% black and there has never been a black governor seems to say that something is wrong. However, I do not know if affirmative action is the answer. I have never been a fan of affirmative action because I feel that it forces us to categorize and separate ourselves. If we really want to eliminate racism, then we need to stop dividing ourselves. This will especially cause a problem in Brazil because of the ridiculous numbers of racial categories that Brazilians use to describe themselves. If there is 130 different racial groups, then affirmative action seems to have little chance of being successful. I do feel that the black and brown population does need to have a chance of attending school and being educated. With the majority of the black population living in the slums, this will not be easy to make happen. Instead of using a quota system, I believe it might be more successful for universities to have a program that reaches out to poor people in the slums and have the government provide some type of financial aid for them. Quota systems usually just end up taking away spots from people who have the qualifications for a job or to be admitted to a college. If certain colleges would just set up a program that would cater to the poorer (mostly black) population, I feel this would be a better option than a strict quota system imposed on all schools. Schools do not seem to be the only place where changes need to take place in Brazil. Politics are controlled by the white population, and there is also blatant racism in the corporate world. A black insurance salesman was not allowed to take a white client on the elevator in his office building. This seems like Brazil is living in a time like during the 60s in the United States. If change does not start within the government and the country’s social policies, then there will never be change that takes place within the world of education. Change most certainly needs to start at the top, aka within politics and the corporate world. If blacks can have more representation in the government and are allowed to have higher statuses in the business world, then there should not be a need for a strict affirmative action to take place. Brazilians may also want to rethink how they racially classify themselves. Having that many racial categories will not help bring the country together.

18. 
    someone

    November 20, 2009 at 3:21 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    I found the 1976 Brazilian census on racial classifications to be quite hilarious. The funny thing is I’m half Brazilian myself and don’t look it at all ,aside from my curly hair (that’s the carioca: people of Rio, in me I guess), and I never really thought about issues of race in Brazil. I’ve been traveling to Rio de Janeiro to visit my grandmother since I was a little kid and to me I always looked at the line between poverty and wealth, without stopping to think about the racial identifications associated between these two classes. To tell you the truth I can’t believe racial discrimination actually exists their, everyone seems to have their own shade of skin color. Walking down the street it’s almost impossible to find a group of people with the same skin tone; people range from being pale white to midnight black. The “brown” people are the hardest to categorize as it seems as if there are hundreds of shades. My dad is probably what you would call “Bronzeada” (bronzed tan). The funny thing is though unless you hear him speak, you would think he was Arabic! He’s got the beard and everything; it’s really hard to distinguish him as a Brazilian. To be honest with you I think it’s impossible to tell if someone is Brazilian without hearing them speak. There are too many different colored people to even begin to imagine how you could be racist. Although I would have to admit, the majority of my dad’s friends are white (by white I mean extremely tan), but he still has a large number of black friends as well. I haven’t seen much of a difference between how each of these groups of friends has been treated in public, but then again maybe that’s because I just haven’t noticed. I agree with Sam, I think that it will be half impossible to pull off this affirmative action policy because of the countless number of racial identifications. Maybe if a completely albino white person talks smack about a totally darker than night black person you could say, “That’s racism!” but other than that your pretty much stuck in the grey area on this issue. It’s definitely not as simple as black and white; you’re trying to protect the people in between as well. It’s hard to say what can be done because of the confusion between racial classifications. Implementing anti afro-American/Indian racial discrimination laws might help to give these groups of people equal opportunities and treatment in Brazilian society. The only way to really prevent further discrimination would be to support ethnic equality laws for the people of Brazil. Asians, Indian, Africans, Germans, living in Brazil are all Brazilians and should be treated as such.

19. 
    Anonymous

    November 20, 2009 at 3:31 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    We discussed a lot about free will and determinism in section on Wednesday, along with quotas and after reading this article I may be in the middle about quotas. At first I found them somewhat unfair and still do. For example, I do not believe if two people of different races are equally qualified when applying for a job but one of them would get it over another because of having to meet a certain quota is just wrong. But when it comes to those who do not get the opportunity for an education it makes me see the quotas differently. I believe that everyone should go to college and do anything that helps to better one’s self especially education because it is so important in today’s world. I can not imagine the happiness and gratitude that this girl felt when she received funding and was able to go to a university. I agree that this could help to be a push towards equality in education in Brazil. Mainly focusing on those in poverty and bettering their lives one step at a time.
    I think the main concern is to provide education for those people facing poverty, not solely based upon their race. It just so happens that people who are black or of a mixed race are the ones suffering from poverty. People who are poor can not afford to attend college like those who come from wealthier families. SAT scores rise with income and parents’ education increases the likelihood of their children attending college. Success is hard work but it is hard to begin your success with very limited resources.
    As for the racial classifications, people classified themselves into 134 of them in 1976, wow that is a lot. I agree with Sam when he says that Brazilians never had a race issue is probably due to the individuals being confused about their own racial identity. It is sad that people can be that confused with their own racial identity that their classifications do not even exist to the Brazilian government. Maybe this should be a heads up to the government officials, if it is even of any concern.
    Relating back to the discussion we had during class on Wednesday, people were talking about how their parents told them they needed to work hard and another how they will have to work three times harder because of their skin color. I just wanted to mention how I disagree with then a white person having to work just as hard as a black person. Everyone has to work hard in order to succeed in life but race does sometimes play a factor in a person’s life and how far they may eventually go. It is not fair, but that is how the world is for now.

20. 
    fuzzylovepony

    November 20, 2009 at 5:05 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    So I am going to go ahead and start my commenting on that racial identity list. I never knew there existed so many ways of classifying skin color. Half of them seemed like I was at a coffee shop with the most delicious and exotic flavor combinations. Starbucks might want to take a look at this list to come up with some really awesome drink combinations and names to call them. Crayola might also want to take a gander at the list. There are some fabulous crayon colors that could be introduced from this list as well. All joking aside though, Brazil like most countries needs to address their racial inequality. Although affirmative action is more of an extreme method to solve the problem, and the dominant race usually has a problem with the concept, however I think it is necessary when racial inequality is that drastic like it is in Brazil. South Africa after apartheid had to also take drastic measures and enlist affirmative action to move the process of racial equality along faster. Since the black majority population was so far behind in the race for equality they needed that extra jump-start to be able to ever have a chance of competing equally. Brazil is in a similar situation as far as their inequality, and affirmative action would be that jump-start that would help boost the process of racial equality so at some point in the future racial equality is a possibility. I enjoy learning about other countries and their social makeup. We talk so much about our own racial problems here in the U.S. that it is also good to know that we are not the only one’s struggling with racial equality and sadly we are actually way ahead of many countries in the racial equality race. For Brazil in particular, the fact that the large majority of the population makes up such a small percentage of the higher education indicates a big problem in racial equality. I would say that Brazil is at that point where they need to be a little more drastic in their policies in order to actually make a difference. I found it surprising that they are not encountering that many racial tensions. In that sense they are lucky, because I would expect to find a lot more racial tensions with such a vast difference in economic and political power between races. I have also never seen such an emphasis on specific skin colors. Instead of describing myself as white or Caucasian I would have to describe myself as, gosh, I do not even know. I would be different colors depending on the season I suppose. It does allow for some creativity and personal expression though, so I will give them that.

21. 
    BlackLightSkinned&am

    November 20, 2009 at 5:12 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    This entry talks about the race problems that Brazil has that is eeriely similar to the problems that United States has been struggling with for decades, and surprisingly has made some kind of progress. Brazil has the largest percentage of black people and was the “HUB” of the slave trade back in the early 1800s. More African slaves were brought to Brazils shores than the United States. So they have a higher concentration of black people than any other continent save Africa. Because of this, as this article in and video has pointed out Brazil has a number of problems stemming from the racial identity. Not only is the ideal of racial identity a problem, as the box which lists out the different self proclaimed races of the Brazillian population, but also overcoming the oppression that this race that has beee placed on these people. The white people in Brazil,as with the other countries, have assumed a dominante and oppressor role. They have held back education from, job opportunities, and many other things from the black people strictly because of their skin color. The people in Brazil finally stood up for themselves and have sparked an affirmative action policy in the education system to have a chance at the same type of education as a white person. This affirmative action has sparked much heated debate for much the same reasons as it did in the United States.
    Brazil’s affirmative action policy is one where 20 percent of the local university’s quota has to be made up of the underrepresented, underpriviledged individuals from the local lower class of the city .This could potentially lead to a white person who has higher test results and who is more qualified for the school being passed over because the school is trying to fill a quota. While I am a person of color myself and feel that we do benefit from programs like this because we are given opportunities that we don’t or wouldn’t normally get, I also feel that if someone is more qualified for a position or spot than me, I shouldn’t get the job strictly because of my skin color. I should get the position because I earned it. This is where I think the flaw in the affirmative action system is, not just in Brazil but also in the US. While you should keep the quota and equal opportunity for everyone idea in the back of your mind, it shouldn’t trump just desserts, or the fruits of hard work.
    It’s good to know that the United States isnt the only country stuggling with issues like this. It is also good to know that the United States may even be considered a front runner in handling these issues. I think the Brazilians should look the United States for guidance. Although we aren’t perfect we are a tad bit more advanced in handling these situations

22. 
    I do like butternut

    November 20, 2009 at 8:23 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    I think that Sam is insane when he says we should all just be white or one color. That will never happen, ever. I also do not mind that people are changing their skin tones. People get plastic surgery and tan everyday, so why can’t they be lighter if they want to? We criticize them for something we do all the time, alter our skin tone or just our body in general. So after seeing the you tube video of Sammy, it seems that he is not purposely trying to change his skin, so we cannot even use this. Maybe we can use it if he is talking about the fact he is white now and how it makes him feel. That would be a cool conversation to have with him actually. Well that is all I have to say about this issue, Sam did not really have much to go off of .

    So moving on the “Affirmative action headache of the century” article from Sam. Once again I am amazed that racism exists to that extent in a different country. I have always been shown how our country is so messed with turmoil over races and never really how it happens in almost every country. Maybe Sam should really think about finding a place that is so close to having no racism and blog about that, that would be very interesting actually. But I guess that would defeat some of the classes purpose, which is to enlighten us on the world and why we have problems and that we have problems. The way I think about this is that there is no real problem at all, we just make this up because it is our human nature to be jealous and greedy…it comes with the smarts of humans, terrible! Because our brain is so complex we have so many more emotions, unlike say a lizard that just eats, poops, lives, and dies. Anyhow, I cannot believe how complex the Brazilians race categories are, I do not even think I could figure out which one I identify. Also what if im pale one day, tan the next, and sunburn the day after…am I categorized as being a different race every day? Or what if you look like a couple different, do they just combined the names? So confusing! I think I will stay with the black/Asian/white categories we have. I also think it is sad that in Brazil you pretty much have to stay in your own boundaries in order to be liked. So within one city they have 134 areas that stay within their own kind?

    This class is fun and interesting. Since it is in the end I would really like to know if any one country is the least racist. Maybe it is America and if people knew that than maybe we would ride on that high horse of being great and completely back away from racism altogether?

23. 
    Croatoan

    November 20, 2009 at 10:17 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    After watching the video, I thought it was funny how the Office of Discrimination in Brazil confused racial coexistence and racial equality. It is so obvious that they are not equal to each other, just look at the United States’ history. When slavery was abolished after the Civil War, black and white people were coexisting with one another. However, they were in no way, shape, or form equal. Black people could not attend the same establishments as white people and had limited rights. This is exactly what is happening in Brazil. Africans and Indians are being discriminated against, as well as white people (the instance where the white customer was not allowed to use the elevator). It seems as if most of the population is brainwashed into thinking everything is fine how it is.
    It is pretty interesting how they think to improve the racial inequality by mandating that universities have a quota system. I agree that this quota system is a reverse discrimination. It does allow for a more diverse student population, but people who are better qualified to attend the university are given the short end of the stick. What surprised me was how the largest population of people with African decent outside of Africa holds a very low percentage of jobs like doctor, lawyer, engineer, and others important to society. This information makes me agree with the fact that the problem isn’t about race, but about poverty. I also thought an interesting point was how the people of Brazil, for the most part, are confused about their race.
    As I scrolled through the list that the citizens of Brazil use to categorize themselves, and kept scrolling, I was just amazed. This is one of the most ridiculous things I have seen in my life. Seriously, 134 races that Brazil has divided their citizens with? This list reminds me of that one class where a student tried to divide up other students into different racial groups based on skin color. This list is very similar, only taken to another absurd level. This is clearly an example of the amount of racism that exists in the population. It’s like if I felt that I was better than another white person, I would just make up some physical description that somehow makes me superior.
    At the end of the article it states how Brazil’s Supreme Court will share its views on the matter in the following year. I think it is obvious that the Supreme Court should rule against quotas, as it could create racial tensions among the population. What the government should do is make public programs that target the poor community and not only help them get jobs, but also opportunities to a higher education.

24. 
    sassafras

    November 20, 2009 at 11:56 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    I must say that I was very puzzled when I began to realize that Brazil was the country of focus for this affirmative action crisis. I always thought there to be so many black and brown people there, that it is impossible for them to be discriminated against. How could this be? It seems that the black and brown people totally outnumber the white people. So why are they discriminated against so much? I suppose this just goes back to the King of the Hill idea that Dr. Richards brought up in class. Whoever starts on top just stays there and will do anything to remain on top no matter how unethical. It seems that Brazil has discovered this discrimination that continues to go on and what to take action to stop it. However, they seem to be taking action at the expense of students. Are they over compensating their mistakes from the past through these affirmative action efforts, or is this the right place to begin? Should accepting students at universities be about making quotas or giving opportunities? To me it is the ladder. There should be more focus on opportunity giving to minorities and not necessarily all about the numbers and quotas. That seems quite skewed to me.
    Furthermore, how is this affirmative action initiative even working when everyone in Brazil seems pretty dark to me? Everyone seems very mixed. With black and brown people being the majority, it’s bound that bi-racial marriages and babies are goin’ down left and right. I don’t see whom there is to discriminate against when everyone identifies as so many different colors. Brazilian researcher Simon Schwartzman even stated in the article that, “You can not force a racial identity in a population where a large percentage of the population don't have a clear racial identity and don't want that.” I could not agree more. How exactly is this going to work? I think perhaps Brazil should focus on the situation their people are in rather than race. Perhaps the focus should be on the folks in the slums and in the poor schools instead of exactly on race, especially in a country that seems to be racially confused. Simon Schwartzman continues, “It is a question of poverty not of race. “ Thus, there seems to be quite a focus mix-up here. It’s like Brazil doesn’t know where to begin with this problem so they are trying to fix it at the expense of the universities. Universities should be about providing opportunities, not quota making. This situation differs from the United States because how people identify themselves here is generally black and white. There’s no question. This is quite the affirmative action headache indeed.

25. 
    Cait 'er Tot

    November 22, 2009 at 9:57 am | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Brazil is a country with a lot of work to do in the upper-level educational race department. The US experienced much of the same conflict when they implemented affirmative action, making it easier for students of color to study at universities that were historically “whites only”.

    In my discussion group, we talked about how as children, people of color were typically sat down and told “you have to work 3 times as hard and the white man if you want to succeed”. I’ve never thought of it in that respect before, but it’s true! If you’re raised in a low-income family and go to crappy elementary, middle, and high schools you’re diploma will not be considered as prestigious as one from a high-income, wealthier community. So where you’re born is luck of the draw in terms of your primary education. The problem is in where you can go from there. High schools tend to create a ceiling as to how far you can go with colleges. The better the high school, the better the chances are of getting into the best colleges in the country.

    Brazil is facing much of the same problem. If they let the students who were raised in the lower-level primary schools into the prestigious colleges with the students who received the highest level of education, they will be far behind. The starting line has been pushed back for the students of color while the white students have it much easier considering their base knowledge. I experienced this when I came to college in a number of my subjects. I came from a private school that was focused on being college preparatory. My first semesters of school have been a breeze because I know how to take tests; I’m a good writer so I can BS a paper in a few minutes if I forget about it. I can do homework and understand concepts relatively easily and therefore don’t have to study as hard to get the same grades. It’s my base knowledge that’s carrying me through. If you know how to learn, you can learn anything.

    This should be taken into account when examining the current racial inequality in Brazilian Universities. If the government worked to fix the elementary and secondary education, the test scores for all racial groups would start to even out. If they continue to just plop under-educated students into the universities, they will have a much harder time succeeding and believing they can compete with the richer white students, so no wonder there’s hardly any students of color in the medical or legal fields of study! They have so much to learn where as the white students can ride off their base knowledge from high school.

    This isn’t even discussing the insane amount of racial groups present in Brazil, if they want to implement an affirmative action policy, who gets the quota? All who have some “dark” in their racial tag? What about just taking it region by region? The problem is the primary education the children are receiving and the lack of attention they are receiving as they ascend the educational ladder. If Brazil wants to level out it’s university graduates and make the college campuses a little more colorful, fixing the lower-level educational systems might do more good than plopping underprepared students into a university where they’re poised to fail.

26. 
    Casper

    November 23, 2009 at 7:11 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    I had absolutely no idea that Brazil had a race issue to this scale. I will now most likely research other countries to see if they also deal with this issue. Reading this article and watching the video about Brazil, showed me that we are making huge progress in America. I thank God that America is not this ignorant when it comes to the race issue. Then again, we still have a lot of work to do. Brazil seems as if it is stuck in the American sixties, not allowing black or brown people from the ghetto to study in universities, only white politicians and teachers, and only black and brown people living in the ghettos. Brazil needs their MLK, or someone to stand up and raise this issue to a national level. It seems as if though Brazil as a country is trying to prevent that from happening. Even if it does happen the issue in my opinion will never be resolved.

    The race issue is going to be around until the day that Sam talked about where everyone will be the same color or at least similar in color. This issue has been around since the birth of this country and will most likely see many more years. I love how people thought if we elect a black president this will all disappear. Wow! One single black man succeeds with the help of some white people and now all the white people can be forgiven for two hundred years of discrimination and affirmative action. The reason this issue will always be around is due to white people. It’s alive because of white people teaching ignorance to other white people. I lived in a predominantly white neighborhood, actually a totally white neighborhood. The number one reason my friends were racist were from their parents and grandparents. Hate breeding hate as I like to refer to it as. I just never understood how this happened. How does one hate a certain race or group if they have never been exposed to that certain race or group. These are the same people who would be afraid to leave our little town to go off and take a chance at something bigger and better. My guess is this is something that goes on in Brazil as well. It’s most likely a powerful wealthy white man preaching his ignorance to other whites so that people of color can never progress. That’s obviously what is going on in the university systems of Brazil, along with the political parties and government. Like I said before Brazil needs a hero to get the ball rolling to make this race issue disappear or at least get to a level where everyone has a chance.

27. 
    Pam Beesly

    November 24, 2009 at 12:51 am | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    I had no idea that Brazil had any type of race issue. My cousin spent seven months in Brazil from late last January until early August, and she never mentioned anything about the race issue that they are having. But I suppose that because she was a foreign university student and only about 2.2% of the university students in Brazil are black, that was why she didn’t have much exposure to such an issue. It appears that some Brazilians that are in power are trying to perpetuate black poverty and subordination by limiting black access to a third level of education. As Sam mentioned, this practice is quite reminiscent of the Jim Crow laws that were once in place in the United States. And despite the obvious, painful discrimination, Brazil denies that there is a race issue. It reminds me of Disposable People and the section on Mauritania, which described in detail the chattel slavery that exists in a country that still denies having slavery of any kind.

    I agree that this denial could have something to do with Brazilian confusion over racial identity. The racial classifications from the 1976 Brazilian census sound more like a box of Crayola Crayons or a list of hair dyes than anything else. Is there really a difference between yellow, yellowish, and yellowed? And which is whiter – pure white, bleached white, whitewashed, very white, translucent, or pallid? I have no idea what someone would look like who is “greenish” unless he or she was someone who is perpetually ill. Many people described themselves with foods and cooking adjectives as well – meringue, strawberry, wheat, toasted, toffee, mocha, cinnamon, cashew, honey, orange, blood orange, milky, tea, coffee, chocolate, peach, and caramel – what’s up with that? With so many racial classification terms, it is impossible to interpret what any of these terms actually mean in comparison to one another and what any of these terms actually mean in Brazilian society.

    It was noted that the Brazilian government uses different categories to classify its citizens than the ones used in the 1976 census. It seems odd that there aren’t standardized classifications that are widely used. How do people even know whether they qualify for affirmative action policies? If you’re Clara or light, are you light white, light tan, or light brown? One’s chances for affirmative action would highly depend upon the word that follows light. And do those who are Cor-firma (“no doubt about it”) qualify for affirmative action? Is it no doubt that they’re white, no doubt that they’re brown, or no doubt that they’re black? I’m just very perplexed by all of this. My cousin made a lot of friends in Brazil, including two who spent last Christmas with our family before her time abroad. By no means did her Brazilian friends all look the same, but no one was really “white” per se. But I suppose the race issue in Brazil is simply less visible than the race issue that we have in the US.

    I understand the argument made by those in opposition of affirmative action – to some extent, affirmative action can act as a form of reverse discrimination. However, it is just absurd that only about 2.2% of the university students in Brazil are black. Clearly, something must be done to create change; and unless a better policy can be proposed, affirmative action remains the best available way to create the needed change. As the prosecutor in the video said, although Brazil may have no issue with racial coexistence, this cannot be confused with the large issue that Brazil has with racial equality.

28. 
    Jambo - Like a fruit

    November 24, 2009 at 5:25 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Much of the time, we focus on our own racial issues and we forget to notice even worse discrimination in other countries. Not being able to use an elevator or major in a particular study because of your color of blatant racism at its finest. This is reminiscent of black not being able to go to white schools or use white water fountains in the United States before the abolishment of slavery. About the same amount of time has passed since the abolishment of slavery in the United States to the abolishment of slavery in Brazil, yet look at the differences of where the two nations stand now. There is still much racism present in the United States, but most of it is subconscious racism of people or system racism. In Brazil, it seems the majority of the racism is extremely blatant and personal. Here, it’s usually a “white” who hates “blacks” or a “yellow” who hates “reds.” You may get a “white” who hate every other color. But with 134 different racial classifications in Brazil, how is it possible NOT to hate at least one other group. How do you even distinguish between them all? White, clear, milky, light, waxy, pure white…what the hell is the difference? At this point, you’re not racist toward a race of people, just a color. There could be two Africans, one “black”, one “dark brown” who hate each other, but that makes absolutely no sense. In the United States, if you have white skin, you’re classified as white, independent of your nationality. Unless you’re Irish and you really hate Pols or something like that, you’re usually not going to hate your own color. But how can Brazilians do this so easily? With certain races controlling the seats in power, the idea of “king of the mountain” comes back into play. How can the Africans in Brazil be able to study in Philosophy when those in power are doing nothing to stop the racism going around? Brazil is trying to “combat centuries of discrimination against Africans and Indians through a very aggressive affirmative action program in their universities.” But with the same group of races controlling the seats of power, no significant progress can be made. We abolished slavery about 20 years before Brazil, and now the United States of America has a black president. However, it’s not as if there was a cheat code the United States used to go so far in moving beyond discrimination. The people of Brazil need to unite to figure out how to move beyond their issues. With leaders such as MLK and Malcolm X, the blacks in this country united against the whites, and won their freedom. But when there is such a division of races in one area, progress against discrimination is unfavorable.

29. 
    Peanut Butter

    November 24, 2009 at 9:30 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Brazil has always been somewhat of a mystery to me. I am poorly informed about Brazilian culture, and it seems as though each time I learn more about it, my previous perceptions are shattered. For instance, while staying at a hostel in Rome, Italy, I met a Brazilian student who was traveling across Europe on his own. Always dressed in a polo shirt, with the collar popped, he seemed to come from a preppy, upper-class white family. When I asked him about his home country, he described endless coastlines of beautiful beaches ideal for tourism. He even told me names of his favorite beach towns that I should visit if I ever decide to travel to South America.
    My rosy image of the Brazilian nation was completely contradicted upon reading Kevin Bales’s Disposable People. His explanation of the struggles of enslaved charcoal-makers in Brazil certainly offered a different view of Brazilian society. Upon reading that Brazil has the greatest wealth division in the world (along with Paraguay), I came to realize that Brazilian society is certainly more complex than shown on a palm tree-studded postcard. I am sure a black, Brazilian slave would offer a very different perspective from that of the wealthy, white student whom I met.
    The clips and articles in this blog add even more intriguing complexity to my sociological perceptions of Brazil. I was especially interested in the way many Brazilians think that ignoring the race issue is better that addressing it. They think affirmative action will “induce racial tension in a society which has been largely free of such problems.” I think a Brazilian slave would disagree.
    Sam makes an interesting point that perhaps the reason the race issue is ignored is due to the ambiguity of racial divisions. The seemingly endless list of racial classifications is astounding. I cannot imagine filling out a legal document and listing my race as “burro running away” or “no doubt about it.” With so many numerous, descriptive racial labels, it is clear that racial divisions are prevalent in Brazilian society. People may claim that there is no race issue, however, because it is simply too daunting and complex a task to even begin to face.
    The fact that some people do not even know where to draw racial lines has become an obstacle in offering 20% of university spots to black and indigenous students. People are uncertain how to classify themselves, or they are choosing the racial category that most benefits them. It is argued that black and indigenous racial groups should receive priority because their impoverished upbringing did not offer the same educational opportunities as those available in white communities. Perhaps, then, preference for admission should be offered based upon income rather than race. However, not every poor student attends a school lacking resources, and not every wealthy family has unlimited access to the best education. Affirmative action is a messy solution to an undefined issue.
    I used to become slightly irritated at the thought of a less-qualified minority student receiving admission to college or acceptance to a job solely because of their skin color. After seeing statistics in class, such as the astonishing correlations between SAT scores and income, my views have started to change. I have come to recognize how fortunate I am to have grown up in a community with many resources including an excellent public school system. I have gained a great appreciation for the balance between the determinist and free-will perspectives. Brazilians are only just beginning to recognize their race issues, and the complexity of their society makes for a long, difficult journey ahead in the quest to amend underlying racial tensions.

30. 
    Peace

    November 25, 2009 at 11:57 am | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Discrimination is a major issue in Brazil. Most of the population in Brazil is black. It is the largest country in South America and the only who speaks Portuguese. The majority of its people are black. Even though most of the population is black there has not been a black president yet. I saw in the video how do native people work are working like I don’t want to see native working on Mexico. I have seen this event before and in Brazil not letting students to pursue a higher education because they want to have them as slaves this is sad. Most of the population is black and they have not yet seen a black president. Why? The president and the board don’t want to or is doing some kind of intervention. I believe they have black members in the government but yet they haven’t elevated into more than members. I see how black people live; they live like slaves and they maintain all the markets running everyday. This programs that this students created were because they want to make changes and they want to see more people also be in right of entry into universities getting an education but this has become dangerous because they don’t have support from other resources and the only change they can do is the one their selves. I know that in all countries you can get a good education but the only problem is always the lack of money and some other little issues but the education and interest they already have the intelligence they also have it. The problem is a little change in minds and believes. We can see these slavery or unrighteous issues that different governments settle and maintain in their countries. All this Brazilian people want to get an education and the government doesn’t do enough neither has ever do anything about it, so all the citizens can get educated. Slavery was abolished years ago and still black people seem to not get of benefits. They are the most population who work as slaves still. They are still working very hard to sell their work to people who take advantage and help this act. This makes me think that maybe I am helping too because I might be consuming products by them. This also makes me think that slavery will never end because the earth will not last longer for us to stop it or maybe we are not going to last because we are like “sitting on the branch of a tree and sawing it” (Lehrer, 35) because it will never be ended the you are going to fall anyways and slavery is going to keep going on for I don’t know until when.

31. 
    waiting for tryptoph

    November 25, 2009 at 3:12 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Wow, don’t you love the racial classifications? This list reminds me of the color choices for painting my living room. In fact, why do we even bother with words? Why not just have the Pantone chips available and we can check the box next to our skin hue. At least it would be objective, rather than arguing over the difference between “wheat-colored” (morena trigueira) and “cashewlike tan” (morena-castanha). These labels on the surface seem kind of fun, allow for the diversity beyond our main 6 (now that mixed race is included), and make me a little hungry (coffee with milk, cinnamon, toffee…yummy); the basic labels we use seem arbitrary. As we learned in class, skin color can have little to do with race. While it seems our government needs statistics for benign reasons, like using a census to measure a population to check for balances and imbalances in our institutions, I do think we should continue to measure how much opportunity is afforded to people of varying ethnicities and race. Whether our 6 category method is used, or the 134 category method of Brazil, they both seem a little misguided. I’m actually serious with the Pantone, and maybe we could add a measure of hair kinkiness. These are things that influence prejudice. As discussed in class, a “milky” colored black or African-American with straight hair will likely be hired faster than someone of the same race with much darker skin and a huge, luxurious afro. If someone is Hispanic, but looks and talks “white,” is it fair to measure them as Hispanic if they are not having an issue during the hiring process? (I’m picking employment, but this could relate to other topics as well.) Acknowledging heritage is important, of course, but as the groups of the world are procreating together, mixing up the colors and ethnicities, the actual lineage seems to be less influential in issues of prejudice rather than external features upon which we are judged. The thing is, we often focus on the opportunities afforded to African-Americans, but what about very dark people of Papua New Guinea (who are Asian) who may look similar to those of African ancestry, and who may also experience lower rates of opportunities. But, light-skinned Asians do not experience the same rates of prejudice as African-Americans, so in my example here, the prejudice of the Papua New Guineans would be overlooked since they could have been discriminated on the basis of being dark, not Asian. I’m not sure how affirmative action would work. Would we need to clarify that enough spots are filled in the “mahogany” category? All I know is the measures taken today are so clearly disconnected with efficacy, something else needs to be addressed in order to account for what is really happening.

32. 
    DDR Queen

    November 25, 2009 at 4:22 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Compared to Brazil, the United States doesn’t look so bad in terms of racism. I mean, just look at the categories they place races by color. I’m looking at the list and I have no idea where I would fit. What would I be called? It wouldn’t really matter because I would be thrown in the brown/black race and would be treated differently, but what would I be called? The United States is pretty simple: white, black, brown, Asian, etc. Brazil has over one hundred names. Therefore, according to the BBC article, it makes it harder with affirmative action, for students to get into colleges. I can understand the logic in affirmative action, that some students predominantly brown and black do not get certain opportunities because of what they are offered in middle and high schools. But then again on the other side, what about those who are dedicated to their work, and cannot get in to a good university because of being beat out by her race? Like what state congressman Flavio Bolsonaro stated “What would be the legacy of that for future generations? In my response to that quote, he has a complete point. You can get in this college, but because your people are in power, you cannot get in. It’s a complicated issue and one that I really have no idea in solving.
    The racism in Brazil is bigger than the United States, hands down. Besides the fact that there are more than one hundred race groups, the majority of people in Brazil are black/brown and there has never been a black governor. That has to tell you something about how things are working down in Brazil. Things may get better, if you consider how the United States fought back, when Obama was elected. That was a huge step for racism, and if the United States can do it, then Brazil may be able too.
    I’m curious to see why there hasn’t been as much tension like in the United States. We had movements, protests, battles, and other actions to try to grant complete nondiscrimination. I haven’t heard of any movements in Brazil but that could be because of the non media attention Brazil receives. I had no idea Brazil had one hundred and thirty-four racial descriptions. It was something that I did not know. I was aware Brazil was almost like a melting pot for slavery back in the day, but I didn’t know there was that much of a majority.
    Now what is the Supreme Court going to do? Do they even have an idea of what actions they are going to take? Some people probably do not even like their racial category. They may be thrown in the brown category and may be considered a lighter breed. What would the Supreme Court do with all of those people treated by their color of their skin?

33. 
    sarge

    November 25, 2009 at 4:41 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    I will be honest and be one of the first to admit that I am the farthest thing from a fan of the affirmative action policy. Watching this video and reading the article has narrowed my opinion to specifically that of the policy’s implication in the United States. Stepping outside the actual effects of the affirmative action plan I can begin to see the genuine necessities for either it or something of its nature, although maybe still not in the United States but definitely in a place like Brazil. Although at the exact time of when the policy takes effect, it seems on a certain level unfair, it is one of those things that just need to be done to end an era of racism and discrimination. In order for Brazil to gain any progress in the areas of racial equality, something of the sort must be exercised to initiate the process.
    I have always been somewhat confused in terms of racial classifications within Brazil’s population. I noticed that some Brazilians seemed to be almost black but was obviously not aware they were and just figured that some Brazilians were significantly darker than others, but still Brazilian descent nonetheless. Upon being educated of the once prominent African slave population being represented there, I understand the African influence in race. One major problem I see with the situation in Brazil is that its citizens. They refuse to allow the African-Brazilian members to fully integrate into their society, which is the void that affirmative action fills. Only once the Brazilian people can become comfortable with who they are will they be able to accept others. I believe Brazil finds itself in the same situation our country once did, and to some degree still does today, in the Civil Rights Movement time period. Only outright non-discrimination practices (i.e. affirmative action) can effectively counter the potent effects of outright discrimination. The imbalance of blacks in universities and professions like law and medicine can only be balanced out by allowing them to entire the social circle, which since is refused by the citizens, must be enacted by the schools and government themselves. The individuals who reap the benefits of affirmative action in Brazil would otherwise have no other valid means of attending a university or ever breaching the walls of poverty and injustice, the opposite of the situation that exists here in the US where I think almost any person regardless of background can become anything or anyone they desire because the means to do so although are not easy are still presented to them.

34. 
    Anonymous

    November 27, 2009 at 3:06 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Although there is a certain “color of poverty” in Brazilian society, it seems that the complexity of racial identity in Brazil would make an affirmative action policy at universities exceedingly difficult to implement. Additionally, instituting a policy on racial grounds would create conflict in an area where it was previously minimal. Brazilian universities could better address the problem of inequality by focusing on socioeconomic factors, rather than primarily racial indicators.
    The problem of inequality in Brazil seems to be a case where racial disparities in available opportunities have developed despite the lack of conscious racism. As a result of the tremendous degree of racial admixture that has occurred throughout the years in Brazil, most Brazilians do not view race in the same manner as we do in America. As the census responses show, many respondents have had an uncertain perception of their racial identity. In a way, this is a blessing to Brazilian society since less conscious discrimination is likely to occur.
    Despite the seeming lack of racial tension, however, it does seem that institutionalized racism has festered its way into Brazilian society. Though Brazil has the largest black population in the Western Hemisphere, blacks are significantly underrepresented in positions of power, as well as in more prestigious professions such as law and medicine. This may be partly attributable to racial discrimination, but in reality, it is more symptomatic of the socioeconomic realities faced by many black and brown Brazilian residents. Just like America, those in poorer communities are not afforded the same educational opportunities as their wealthier peers, and therefore get stuck in the same cycle of poverty as their parents and grandparents. One could make the argument that an affirmative action policy for universities and other institutions would be beneficial to the black and brown community, and offer opportunities to individuals who would otherwise not have access to them. As the video illustrated, there have already been beneficiaries to these quota policies, who would not have had the chance to attend university in their absence.
    With that being said, what are the costs of instituting an affirmative action policy based on race? Would such a policy undermine race relations in a country with a history of racial coexistence? It would seem unfair to provide preferential treatment to only those of color who come from a poor background, while ignoring the plight of poor whites who also suffer from a lack of opportunity. However, it is important to distinguish between racial coexistence and true racial equality. As the numbers suggest, the latter is merely a myth. Beneath the surface, racial discrimination and tension do indeed exist in Brazilian society and need to be addressed. This seems to be a byproduct of the stigma that poverty creates. Because black and brown people are overrepresented in slums, there seems to be an association between the faculties and dispositions of people of color and their place in the socioeconomic landscape. This is not dissimilar to the situation here in America, where centuries of oppression and inequality have created a wall of tension and misunderstanding.
    It takes conscientious planning and diligence to overcome these boundaries. In Brazil’s case, however, this work should not come at the expense of its relative racial harmony. Racial and social equality could be furthered with an affirmative action policy. However, this policy should be based on economic ability, not racial status.

35. 
    mr schneebly

    November 27, 2009 at 3:12 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Sam’s blog post about Brazil and their issues with racial discrimination once again opened my eyes to how much I generalize and stereotype the world around me without really taking a deeper look into the societies of other counties. Generally, when I think about Brazil or any other country that has people of different races living together, I think that they are living in equality and peace. I guess it’s easy to think that your own country is the one with problems when that is all you are constantly hearing about in the news, in classes, ect. This is also just another example of the extreme ethnocentrism we suffer from in the United States. In a way though I feel like hearing about these civil rights issues going on in other countries can in a way unify us in the fight for equality and justice. Once we realize that we are not the only nation struggling with racism and inequality, we can stop feeling like every other country looks at us and judges us on the state of our race relations. I also found the fact that Brazil is using affirmative action interesting, because I know in my life I’ve heard a lot of mixed feelings about whether or not affirmative action is a correct way to handle race relations and to see that another country is also using this and it is producing such positive results made me reconsider if what I’ve been hearing about the subject is true. From my own experience I’ve sometimes heard that affirmative action is not fair and that two equally qualified people of different races could be up against each other for a competitive job and the employer would make his or her decision based upon skin color instead of credentials. I think it’s very important for the students in Brazil that may not have had an equal opportunity to further their education to get government funding because if you come from an under privileged family there is no way to break the cycle of poverty unless you are able to get an education and get into a career that will prove fruitful for yourself and your family. So, by giving these students funding and opportunities perhaps the government in Brazil can lead it’s country past the debilitating racism and classism that has been present for many years. The underlying lesson or message that I took away from this post was that although I and many others may think that the United States as a country is on the bottom rung of the ladder when it comes to race relations, maybe we are making progress more than we think.

36. 
    Sweet Dee Reynolds

    November 27, 2009 at 4:25 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    One thing I love about this class is that we constantly step outside of our own narrow viewpoints and open our eyes to the rest of the world. Even if you disagree with every word that Sam says, you can’t deny that it is enlightening to take a deeper look at the cultures and practices of places we have only seen on a map. For example, I was never aware that any situation such as this existed in Brazil. It is amazing that the discrimination and affirmative action that occurs here is something that happens everywhere; it’s not that it is hard to believe –in fact, it makes sense when I think about it- it’s just that I had never actually thought that much about it before now. I usually fall right in the middle on most issues, and affirmative action is one of them. I do not 100% agree or disagree with it, and I think there are different circumstances and outcomes that change how I feel about it. However, in this situation, it seems that they are just trying to give a push in the right direction to all of the people who have historically been left out. The one girl in the BBC article described how she would have never been able to attend university if not for affirmative action. She just expected to get married and get pregnant and that would be her life, and now she is studying and getting her degree. Speaking as someone who would not be able to attend college if I did not receive government grants and scholarships, I can completely understand this and I see nothing wrong with that. She never chose to be born where she was born or grow up in a certain way as a result of her parents’ situation, and she should have a fair shot at life like everyone else. This is like the example Sam gave in class, about trying to get to the top of the mountain. It is much harder to get there if you have all of these factors standing in your way to begin with. However, I don’t exactly agree with the idea of quotas, or preventing other deserving people from getting in to a university just because you do not have enough people of a certain race already there. So in a sense I guess I can see why people would oppose this policy. But one major issue I see with the idea of establishing quotas is the fact that there are 134 racial classifications! How would that work out? Apparently there is a difference between a cinnamonlike brunette and a cinnamon-hued brunette, and this could definitely cause some problems when you are trying to establish set rules for affirmative action and against discrimination. This just reminded me of the class where we discussed how arbitrary it is to classify all of the races. What does it really matter anyway? We’re all different shades.

37. 
    Coach

    November 27, 2009 at 4:31 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Okay, this is kinda nuts. I'm still not quite sure how it works. What was said about the government makes me think of apartheid in Africa, but the story about the guy bringing in a white potential customer and having to use the stairs complicates things. Was his boss just like fuck you you're white take the stairs for revenge, or was it something else? I don't really know. I guess the important thing is that it shows that the society is not a utopia, devoid of racial issues. Then there's the professors. I don't know how an educated person can say that someone is not fit for a certain major because of their home life, or where they came from. If the accusation was that certain people coming from poverty, being of a different race, or whatever might have a harder time in certain majors I could agree with that one some level. I guess this ties back to not being able to make black and white statements. What I could agree with is much more flexible. Professors though, I feel would have some sort of an open mind about things. Then again it wouldn't seem likely that open mindedness would factor much in to their lives if they were native to Brazil. They probably went to a private school and were not really exposed to people living in poverty, or even just the lower class. That's some intellectual weak sauce in my opinion though. My definition might be different though because I tie intelligence pretty strongly to someone's mindset. The affirmative action reminds me of the integration of blacks and whites in to the same public schools during the sixties and seventies. I'm unsure where this stat came from (probably lecture), but I heard that schools are more segregated now then back in the day. The struggle going on in brazil could be very similar to those events just on a higher educational playing field.
    I breezed over one of the other entries before writing this and saw Sam's opnion on gun control, and I think this could be applied to this in a crude fashion. People could all decide to be of the same race, or they could all individually have their own team. I'm not talking like your family is a team. You are a mix of your parents and not equal to either. I think that the 70s census race list lends itself to this. Side note: if people identified themselves as those races why in the hell would you tie your race to a "profession?" What I'm singling out is Polaca. "Oh yeah I'm Polaca can't you tell? I have Polish features, oh and I'm a prostitute. Ain't no thing." So anyway, the solutions, which will never happen, are everyone is on one team, or everyone is on their own team. The latter would potentially cause so many problems if people took it to heart that they'd all have to forget about it and move on, or their society would crash down around them.

38. 
    Anonymous

    November 27, 2009 at 5:26 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    When I was looking though the race realtions blog eariler today I stumbled across the post entitled "The Affirmitative Action Headace of the Century". After reading the first paragrah of the post I decided to use it for my journal for a few reasons. First of all I chose it because I think affirmative action is useless and it actually does more harm to the people it aims to help than it does good. For example in my discussion group a few weeks ago we talked about how here in the United State the group that benifits the most from affitmative action is white woman. Although white woman are the subject of some discrimination I think most people in the United States would agree that other groups such as blacks and Hispanics for example are discriminated against much more. That aside, I also found this post quite interesting from a few standpoints. The first and most obvious of which is how the target of the discrimination in this case was a white male and even more surprising was how the black man was actually the one to report it. In class and in our discussion group we have focused on discrimination but for the most part we have talked about discrimination here in the United States where the targets are most often blacks and other racial groups that are in the minority. The case is very different overseas. The discrimination is still directed at the minority group as it always is but in Brazil for example that group happens to be white people. This I would imagine is shocking for many people in the United States to read. It is diffucult for white people here in the United States who have never traveled overseas to imagine being discriminated against simply because of their skin color. One thing that is the same over in Brazil as it is here is that they refuse to admit to have a "racial problem" that is because it has such negative connotations that go along with it. Sam said it in class and it couldn't be more true the one thing that upsets a person more than anything else is being called a racist. You can call someone stupid or whatever but as soon as you call them a racist they immediately become defensive. Another thing I found extremely interesting is how the Brazilians came up with all of those different classifications of race in their census. When I first saw that huge list I though for sure that the government had created all of those classifications. I was surprised to see that the citizens classified themselves that way. I would have though that the citizens would want to be in the same group rather than so many different ones.

39. 
    Tyra Banks

    November 27, 2009 at 11:51 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    It’s always interesting to hear about news from different parts of the world, especially when it’s dealing with race relations issues like these. Different races and ethnicities face people differently in different parts of the world. For instance, one race could be the super race in one part of the world and be completely discriminated against in another. That just seems so strange to me and just makes it all seem to pointless. Anyway in this case, Brazil shows similarities to America because of the discrimination faced by people of African descent that were first brought to the country as slaves. It clearly shows how hard it is for that group of people to fully gain respect after such a horrible history. People can acknowledge that and say that they are equal, but in reality it is tough for these peoples to really be equal to everyone else in all the same ways. It seems to be very similar to the United States in this way. It’s really a difficult thing. You can free slaves and say they’re equal, but of course it’s never just that easy. People have to struggle and work way harder than they should need to to succeed.
    Brazil, seems like it might have a lot more problems with discrimination than the United States. Just looking at all the different types of classifications people could be fit into. It’s just like Sam says, how would people even know what to classify themselves as? There are way too many categories and they are somewhat strange categories if you ask me. That many are definitely not necessary. I don’t know about Brazil, but I don’t think a system like that would ever work in the United States. There are way too many biracial families in America today to have such narrow categories like ones saying whether they are “thistle colored”, “waxy”, or “tea colored”.
    It really is a shame that such racism exists practically everywhere. If only one country could lead the way without it, but it just seems inevitable. It really surprises me sometimes. You think about these places, but never as a place full of discrimination and hate. I personally just picture Brazil as a fun place with beautiful beaches and beautiful people never really considered diversity issues. My boyfriend spent a whole year in Brazil and has told me tons of stories, but of course I never thought about Brazil in this way before. So it always just surprises me when we talk about issues like this going on in different places around the world that I’ve heard about or even know someone that has lived there and I never even knew about this going on.

40. 
    Chewi

    November 28, 2009 at 10:08 am | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    When I scrolled down and saw the list of all these racial classifications I honestly just started laughing. That is so wild, to have that many distinct racial groups. Some of the names that stood out to me were Regular, I wonder what shade of people that would be? My guess is you wouldn’t have to look farther than which shade of people are most represented in the government, also most likely the ones who came up with all these crazy classifications. Other ones that stand out to me are the ones that incorporate physical features in association with color, such as Negrota, Loira, which are bulky black and blonde white people. This just says to me that, because there is a whole separate classification for them, their bulk or their blonde implies something else about them in Brazilian culture. That’s not to say that we don’t do the same thing here, we all know dumb blonde jokes as well as the stereotypes of black athletes for example when the famous sports broadcaster Jimmy the Greek stated his opinion on why he thinks blacks are better athletes leading to the end of his career and a tarnished legacy. And then there are just the ridiculous ones like Bem-clara, which means Translucent people? Really? Is that albino or just really pale or what? I don’t think that it is a bad thing to group people though, in the sense that we have to acknowledge that we are different, but it is a shame that over the course of human existence we have attached, contributed, and developed so many things to ones being, demeanor, intellectual capacity, etc. simply because of color. When I read this article I was somewhat surprised because I knew that Brazil was extremely diverse in this sense, but I never knew of the discriminatory aspects of their society. I guess I just assumed that because there were so many different looking native Brazilians that everyone just kind of ignored it or it was a non-issue. It’s actually somewhat disheartening because I see this situation as Brazil being both in front of and behind the United States in a couple of senses. In front of in the respect that the color representation seems to be much closer to what the world is heading towards, this “caramelization” as someone said in class today, and behind in the sense that they are having similar problems with race that we had approximately fifty years ago. I stated disheartening because at first I saw this as a cause for concern that, oh great so even when we are all brown we’re still going to discriminate by shades of brown. But then I realized that I had to recognize globalization, and that ignorance is slowly fading away from the list of viable options when it comes to race relations.

41. 
    Larcenist

    November 28, 2009 at 4:07 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Forget race. Although this topic does deal with some racial issues its probably better to downplay race as a way of getting a quota for poorer students in universities. Why not just say there needs to be a quota of poorer students accepted to universities? It's true that, while Brazil doesn't have as many problems with racism as some other countries, blacks and browns are generally in poorer neighborhoods.
    But why not just set the quota for poor people? I'm sure there are some whites that are poor to and could use the help and this way not as much racial tension arises. The quota will still bring about a large amount of black and brown students.
    I honestly have never seen so many different words for skin colors in my life. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing but it definitely will make it hard for quotas on skin color to be classified. I actually kind of see it as a good thing really because its shows that society is mixing and things aren't just black or white. Its also got to make it harder to have stereotypes for all of these classifications.
    I wonder how long it took the government to make that list though. The problem with quotas on race is that they can raise conflict. For example, if I do all around better in school then a black kid sitting next to me then why should he get accepted to a school over me? The same can be said if the kid is poor however then there is no quarrel over race, or at least not as much. There is more of an emphasis put on economically down-trotted people. These people need scholarships and more help, not because they are black or cashew colored, but because they just got unlucky and got born into a poorer family.
    There is always going to be a little conflict put on race with this kind of thing. Fortunately I think it will be a lot less potent of an effect with such a wide range of classifications for people. In our society the KKK uses programs like this as excuses to hate other races and put them down. They feel these types of programs unfairly distinguish their power and could lead to future destruction for them. Anything could honestly go wrong with a program like this. Its more the way people see it then what its actually doing. People need to not see it as threat to them, but as a charity case and a helping hand to those down in society, some of which come from their same race/ethnic backgrounds. As long as the program is framed well by schools and the government it will be accepted by the people.

42. 
    Booty Sweat

    November 30, 2009 at 1:40 am | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    After reading an article like this, I have to say that I am absolutely appalled. I think that it is insanely ridiculous that in the year two thousand and nine there is still rampant and widespread racism like this. Even though Brazil is an extremely diverse nation with large numbers of White, African, Mixed Race, and Indigenous peoples, whites tend to hold most if not all of the power. With that being said, I personally believe that the implementation of affirmative action practices will ultimately be a good thing for Brazilian universities. This could also prove to be very beneficial for many Brazilians. With the education of blacks and browns, class divisions will become less about race and based more solely on class. Since Brazil has such a large population of black and brown people, higher education levels will lead to higher incomes of these people, this in turn will lead to a much larger middle class in the country. These newly middle class people will then purchase more goods and services, which will then lead to a large growth in the GDP of Brazil. Once people are being treated equally regardless of there race, and there is a larger middle class of blacks and browns, then the affirmative action policies will not be needed and will then be abolished. However, people tend to stand in the way of this progressiveness. The fact that many people seem to not mind the vast amount discrimination that is seen in Brazil is disgusting. These people tend to ignore the extreme amount of prejudice acts that are committed against blacks and browns in that country. To them it is highly unusual to see people of different races socializing together. It is so baffling to me to all of the loads of ways that people try to down play the discrimination. They claim that Brazil has never really had a big “race problem.” However, this claim seems to not make sense? If any other group tends to enjoy a much higher standard of living, has access to better jobs, better education, and even better healthcare for any reason other than class, than discrimination must be a factor. There is a race problem anywhere if the average person of another race enjoys a much better lifestyle than the average person of another race. It is also very interesting to see that some people in Brazil are challenging the affirmative action laws. They claim that white applicants who earn a better score than a minority applicant on an exam will not be able to attend the university if affirmative action is implemented. These people, however do not seem to understand how affirmative action works, for if they did they would not utter a comment so stupid.

43. 
    hippie chick

    November 30, 2009 at 4:03 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Brazil seems to have deep rooted racial problems. It is a progressive step for the government to try to help correct the issue. It comes as no surprise that other countries have just as many racial problems as the United States. The story of the woman speaking about Brazil’s education system is shocking though. She said that if you come from the slums, many people think you are unfit to study such subjects as Philosophy. The right to learn was taken from the slaves in early America. What is happening in Brazil is modern day racism. The idea that people from the slums can only learn certain subjects is absurd, but it is even more absurd that people believe this and have managed to convince others.
    The Afro-Brazilian culture is vibrant and lively. It is odd to me that the race discriminated against in Brazil is the white people. The story of the black insurance salesman who was not permitted to take a white client up the elevator of his building only because the client was white is obvious racism. It is obvious to me that intervention in the form of protest groups or the government needs to occur.
    Affirmative action policies for the universities in Brazil seem like a necessary step towards easing racial tensions and leveling the playing fields between races in Brazil. Without these programs, the poorer blacks would not be able to attend public universities and better themselves. Every one deserves a helping hand up. It’s odd that the affirmative action policies are protested in Brazil, in a country which has such clear and present racism in every day life. Even America has affirmative action policies. Yes, America experience a time of horrible racism just like Brazil, it is just all the more reason for Brazil to implement these policies. Of course the upper class whites and blacks can afford to have their children attend private universities, but where does that leave the under privileged? The only way for minorities to move up in life and better themselves is through hard work and education. Give them the tools to succeed. The congressman who believes that this affirmative action is a form of reverse discrimination is way off base. It is surprising to me that he lives in Brazil and without a doubt sees the injustices concerning race and poverty daily. I agree more with professor Paixao and his views on education and minorities. He expressed that blacks are absent from most universities, and that professions should not be exclusive. The argument that quotas even partly based on race introduce racial tension is legitimate. In the case with Brazil though, racial tensions have been present for quite some time. Quotas are a step in the right direction.

44. 
    Sarah Beth

    December 3, 2009 at 1:59 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    After reading this article, I began to see both sides of this story. I think it is fortunate for the people of African descent, like Gisele, who were able to attend a university because of the quota that Brazil is trying to reach. Although she was content with the life she was planning on living, attending a university is going to give her many more options than she ever thought possible. I cannot imagine thinking that you might not be able to go to a university because of the race you are. I know we deal with it too in the United States and this class has opened my eyes to it but I just cannot imagine that feeling being a white, upper-middle class, female.

    However, I also see what Simon Schwartzman was saying too. It does have more to do with poverty rather than just being poor and black. Although that is the race that is the majority is the poor areas in Brazil. I think this will continue to be an ongoing battle within Brazil because once a choice is made there are going to be people that don’t agree with it and think another form of action will be better. It is also going to be hard to decide who gets “long end of the stick” when dealing with affirmative action. I see where affirmative action can help and where it can’t. I like what Sam said in the blog, “things aren’t that bad so let the sleeping dogs lie”. That if people aren’t complaining, why give them a reason to complain? However, there might be people complaining, they just don’t have a loud enough voice to be heard and might be hushed to avoid controversy.

    On to the list of racial classifications…I had to laugh while reading some of these. Not laughing at them but it is comical how many ways you can say “white”, or “tan”, or “brown”, or “black”. While reading through the list I counted over 15 ways that they describe themselves as just white. No wonder many think affirmative action won’t work. They would have no way of classify who benefits from it and who doesn’t. It was also interesting to me how many of those classifications dealt with characteristics that dealt with food or a description that you could use for one season of the year and not the other. Like sun-burned…most people get sun-burned at one point in their lives but that doesn’t classify what racial group you are in by any means. Or veins showing through the skin, that isn’t a classification either. That is just what that specific person looks like. This list could be shortened immensely and then everyone might a clearly view of their race.

45. 
    Blanquita

    December 4, 2009 at 1:27 am | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    I believe that calling Brazil’s race relations issues the headache of the century is a bit of a stretch, not to mention that it’s a sweeping generalization, which is dangerous and often wrong. Like a lot of other countries on this planet, Brazil has to deal with all different types of people as well. That overly comprehensive list of all the different races was too many for me to ever count. And it can’t possibly be expected of the Brazilian government to use affirmative action in such a satisfying way to all those races. It was not in the blog, but I wonder how many of these numerous groups in the country of Brazil are fairly represented in the Brazilian government. It obviously must not be the greatest of representations otherwise we wouldn’t be sitting here discussing the affirmative action and how it is impacting the people of Brazil.
    Affirmative action is a political issue that a lot of actions will have to confront for years and decades to come. However, I don’t believe that there is a computer out there waiting to be invented in order to correctly distribute jobs throughout a country that is filled with a myriad of race and color. Affirmative action in a country with so many different races is a positive thing. It does not always get the greatest support from politicians, but then again, those people and their race already have jobs and stature in any random Brazilian community.
    So I guess saying that Brazil has never really had a race issue is a bit premature. If the people of that nation believe that there is a race issue and that affirmative action is a cornerstone of bucking the trend, then I’m all for it. I certainly am not going to sit here and say that there are no race issues in America, so why should I say that Brazil does not face similar racial issues? Now that would be a sweeping generalization and we all know where those lead to.
    I am really curious as to whether or not the entire world will eventually become one race, with one skin color. Would we eventually get along with everyone else just because we all look similar? I hardly doubt it. We have discussed this topic in class and I have tried to picture an entire country of brown people. It makes sense that this would happen if we continue to create interracial intimate relationships and produce children. I’m not sure if this concept is realistic though. Won’t people closest to the equator still have the darkest skin? I will never know in my lifetime, but the future scares me, so I’m okay with living here and now.

46. 
    noname

    December 4, 2009 at 8:35 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Affirmative Action has many supporters for many good reasons. You cannot complete the race relations dialogue without discussing affirmative action. Affirmative action was created to attempt to reverse racism and the inequality that is faced by people of color. Instead of reversing the effects of racism, it is reverse racism of white males. The goal of affirmative action is to be admired, but its use is discouraging. I still think qualifications and experiences should be the deciding factor in any decision instead of race or social status. Now this blog post about Brazil is very interesting. They have many descriptions of race and the color of someone’s skin. Very little of their classifications are based on nationality. These colors or descriptors are hilarious; cashew, cinnamon, coffee, milky, etc. Wow, they are starting to use food describe the color of skin. The Brazilians seem to be very confused on racial identity. The Brazilians are literally skittles. They have every color and shade of the freakin’ rainbow. I read these names and some ideas come to my mind. It reminds me of how I like my meat cooked, milk, beer, food, nuts, etc. I like the easy descriptors that we were taught when we were young. White, black, yellow, and red. They aren’t perfect but are much easier than a list of 15,000. This also brings up the point, that we shouldn’t even use racial identifiers as they provide not real value. Our society focuses on many traits or characteristics that have no relation to performance or abilities. This belief or system causes a creation of all kinds of stereotypes and “isms”. We continue to causes problems for ourselves by accepting a system that is dictated by preconceived notions and subconscious thoughts. Affirmative action is a useless piece of crap that tries to make steps in the right direction but instead creates a larger gap of inequality. It does not shock me that Brazil actively uses quotas for their universities. This is becoming common practice and may be seen as helping race relations as a whole. We talk about integrating all the races and socio-economic classes but Affirmative Action works in reverse and gives priorities to the wrong people. Colleges and businesses should not adopt any kind of quotas or affirmative action policies. The application and selection process of universities and businesses are so complex that it is nearly impossible to have two or more identical candidates. Human Resource departments have applications that list many different criteria and even use tests that would further distinguish the differences between candidates. If a college or business can find two identical candidates then they should be obligated to take the person of color. This is such a rare event I do no forsee it happening. I think the policy of Affirmative Action should be ended.

47. 
    PassionFruit

    January 25, 2010 at 9:37 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Coming from a Brazilian person who was born AND raised there, this issue is being inflated way over what it really comes down to. I don't know if anyone who commented is Brazilian and frankly the responses are all so simliar and all so much like a run on sentence that I couldn't get past the first sentences. First let me remind you all that this was 1976!!!! Do you know how much has happened since and how much the generation has evolved? I understand the humor in 130 something classifications 125 of which haven't been used, probably EVER. I am thankful for my opportunity to escape the violence and poverty that every third world country has but why does every "First World" citizen have to pretend like they actually care about racism in Brazil? Does it make them (even me sometimes) feel like they're making a difference?

48. 
    PassionFruit

    January 25, 2010 at 9:37 pm | Permalink | Log in to reply.

    Let me save you sometime, and tell you that you should all be focused on greater issues. Racism exists in Brazil as it does everywhere else. But the reality is that everyone is so mixed, so in love with the nature of being Brazilian that at the end of the day, they forget all about it in the first place. Is that unfortunate? Yes, to a point. Racism is a big deal, but 130 something classifications is like one of those outlandish laws about throwing pickles in Kentucky, or something like that.

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