315015 responses to “Men Free, but Women Sacred?”http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldinconversation.org%2F2010%2F10%2F08%2Fmen-free-but-women-sacred%2FMen+Free%2C+but+Women+Sacred%3F2010-10-08+05%3A06%3A14Sam+Richardshttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldinconversation.org%2F%3Fp%3D3150
What is truly at the root of this double standard? Is it really that women are actually more valued? Is it a desire to maintain and perpetuate a patriarchal system by controlling the actions of women? How would the men having this conversation honestly feel if they were in the shoes of these women–would these men willingly trade their freedom if it meant that an inherently patriarchal system supposedly "valued" them more??
More importantly–does the western/feminist perspective in my questions devalue their validity in a middle east dialogue?
Your perspectives aren't devalued in this middle eastern dialogue because of the great influence the West has on the Middle East. The middle east has so much of the "western" essence and way of life. Also, feminism is evident in many Arab countries in the Middle East as most women now receive equal salaries and job opportunities as the men do. The concepts are there but they have different meanings when taken across borders.
I don't like the usage of the term "patriarchal system" because I believe it exists in all societies. There is always a man behind the lens dictating what women should look like on ads and whether or not the new female applicant will be accepted. In the US women fought sexism, phallocentrism and the heteronormative point of view to create a bit of themselves in society and the media. With political equality value is, for one reason or another, sacrificed. Western women receive equal opportunities but are strangely marginalized without being appreciated, objectified in the media and stripped of any special rights. Women In the Middle East are allowed to work and go through life in any manner they please as long as they do not harm their reputation that is automatically going to be linked to their current and future families. In a way women are the backbone of society, they reflect their family's values and education and are therefore expected to be so much more than just a replica of the working man. Their freedom does not hinge on being treated exactly like a man but on more realistic grounds.
Women and Men is as i believe a serious topic related to the middle was and the whole world. We saw discrimination, yet, that does not mean it's really discrimination. Why don't we think of it as a different perspective. Like in the middle east when a guy can do what ever he wants, yet a girl can't and if she don't obey the rules she might be threatened not to get married, however, why don't we as the guys said in the video that girls are protected and put on the highest level and gain the most respect because she's a woman, something precious in the middle east.
I believe back home woman can work now, go out, drive and even they are join the army in school, which technically means they have the same rights as guys.
Yet, people mixed between religion and traditions or let's say got a different understanding where they started to be hard on women. Therefore, of course women will feel the "racism" and say they are mistreated or not treated as men.
I honestly think both sides of the argument are true, yet, people's understanding of thing and aspects may change some ideas of how actually woman are treated in Islam.
Men and women being equal in almost everything here in the U.S made so many people think that is the case everywhere, however, this is not the case in most of the countries in the middle east. This comes from our religion first then from our culture. Also that does not mean that men have all the right and women do not as many people think, its just that men are responsible for their families and women are mostly responsible for raising the children and taking care of them. Most of the middle easterns are so protective about their women because they have the idea that if something happened this will bring the shame on the entire family. But still Women have all the right to work and earn money but this money goes to her not to the family not like men.
What Layan said is true somehow, that if the women did a mistake, it will become harder to her to get married not like men, which comes from the culture that we have been raised on not our religion. If it was based on religion they will be equal in that case.
I can fully understand the points that are being made in the video from both sides (guys and girls). I have a cousin who used to bug me because she wasn't allowed to get out as much since she's a girl, and she somehow made it my fault. So I can totally see that there are more strict rules on females than males especially in Saudi Arabia. It's like Omer said, girls don't have as much freedom. It might sound a little harsh but it's kind of true.
There's something I'd like to point out in response to what Layan said in the video. I do believe that a girl's reputation would be severely hurt when people know she's dating, but that doesn't mean that a guy can start dating and sleeping with other women because the rules don't apply to him. Guys have reputations too! A guy would also have a hard time getting married when he's 'caught' fooling around. Maybe it's different in different areas in the Middle East, but I can't see a guy getting away with it in Saudi Arabia. Unless of course only his immediate family found out and punished him secretly. I'm not trying to explain why would a girl be more 'subjected to judging' as Layan puts it, because honestly I don't have an explanation for that. All I'm saying is, maybe the scale through which people are judged is different for Muslim Arab guys and girls, but that doesn't mean that it does not exist for guys.
I think it is important for parents to actually care about what’s going on in their children’s lives. It’s an essential part of good parenting! Notice how I said “children’s lives” not just daughters lives or sons lives. Equal protectiveness and care for their well being is something that both sons and daughters need. But as discussed in this conversation, that is not the case. In reality in the Arab and/or Muslim community (or ANY community) women tend to have to deal with more attention and judgment from their family and peers.
I agree with what Ahmad said that in Islam woman are held at a higher standard and should be respected. I agree, I think all women deserve to be treated with respect. However, I don’t think this means that woman should be overly protected and subject to more judgment from society. Woman aren’t genetically predisposed to making more mistakes then men. Therefore, in my opinion there is no logical reason as to why woman should receive more attention, as if at any moment she is liable to do something scandalous. Regardless of one’s gender if a person wants to do something bad, they will do something bad.
Also, I would like to add that, yes, I am happy that my family cares about me and want to protect me. However, I do not think it is flattering that my parents are obviously more protective of me and my reputation then that of my brother. In fact I think it is very insulting. Im offended by the fact that society would be more critical of me dating a guy then they would of a man doing the very same thing.
Men are Free!! that's true in all aspects of life back in Middle East. They got to do whatever, and no blame is thrown upon them. In class, guys had an opinion regard this when they said that this inequality between two genders, and the protectiveness over women is out of respect, care, and how valuable women are. I was just wondering, if this was "the reason" behind this, does it mean that men do not deserve the same level of respect! Does it mean that they are not valued like women are!!
why won't it be an equal protectiveness?
As Nouf said,nowadays we can see women participating in everything, they're even joining men in the work field to help their men raising a family. So, why women are always subjected!
As I was reading the responses, I liked the opinion about parents, and their role in raising their children with the idea of "equal protectiveness."
To compare men and women in Islam is not right each have their own roles they play in society as well as in the house. So to compare the two according to the religion is not really fair, is like comparing a quarterback to a defensive back. They both have different roles one takes care of the offense while the other takes care of the defense, just like in Islam a man has certain obligations, and the women has others. I understood the point that the females were trying to get through to us males in that conversation, but it’s not a valid point. Women are more protected because they are a prized possession. They eventually have to get married and go to another house, the more respect they have the better marriage proposals they will tend to get. If a girl is known for hanging out to late with other males in any society she will be looked at with less respect, and the same goes for a male. Parents care more for their daughters because a lot of their respect depends on her acts with society, but when compared to a male he is looked upon as his own many times not refereed with the parents. When it comes to the way society looks at females it is more from the culture aspect and not the religious aspect. Even in India females are not allowed out after sometime even if they are with just their female friends because it looks bad in society. My point I am trying to get across is exactly what Ahmed said if a women is looked at with such respect and is being so protected why are you crying you should be happy.
when talking about the double standard or the differences between men and women in the middle east we just cannot compare whats going on in the states to the middle east in any way shape or form. The norm in the states is not the norm in the middle east. the way the culture interacts with individuals is different. I know that sometimes women are judged more heavily than men and i believe that's not right but its only because they are the focus of society. we have been taught since our childhood that women are the building block of society. it is stated many time in the Quran that women are to be treated with the highest respect. they are to be cared for. in marriage women are not expected to spend a single penny on their households. Now since this is all part of the Islamic religion which governs our day to day life in other words our culture. Thats why comparing different cultures is almost impossible. when we say freedom thats not necessarily talking about the same thing. going back to the video i know that women are judged more than men but not to the extent stated in the video. Dating as far as I know is not allowed in Islam because its is thought to be the road sin. so if my family is even suspicious of me going out with girls not even sleeping with them just going out with them on a date. I would be looked upon very badly and if the word spreads to th outside I might have a hard time getting married. but the thought that wouldn't do anything is very very unlikely.
This is a really tricky matter in which you must look at both the cultural and religious implications. You can use cultural implications to talk about the burqa (the whole body, face, everything else covered in black) and other such implications; but, you must acknowledge that some of the cultures of certain countries and regions have branched off of religion. True, it may be grounded in religion but some communities take and do things that are not truly in Islam. Subjugation is not taking lightly in Islam at all (unless to God) and it is seen that some cultures have forcefully subjugated certain females and people of lower class. Whether from debt bondage or gender discrimination, these are still ways in which Islam has prohibited taking liberties away. In certain regions, women aren’t allowed to pursue academic intentions. Islam never said that, it just said in the broad over-encompassing sense that you should gain knowledge even from China or the fringes of the world (obviously I’m paraphrasing). While we understand this cultural oppression, I understand that it is wrong and that should not be done.
However, when we begin to talk about Islam itself, then one can see that women are truly held to the higher standard. The Prophet (pbuh) himself said that the mother is the most important 3 times before the father. One is supposed to take care of the females and saying that women don’t need to be taken care of is absolute stupidity. Not that females are weak, it is just that there are forces that wish to harm females in this world and they need to be protected by them. (Why do women always walk with other people at night? Is it because of subjugation or protection in numbers? Also, the things that women learn and act like will definitely affect their children. Children’s first teachers are their mothers, and you can say whatever you want but the mother upon her own volition will always take good care of their children. This is a mother’s love. Tell it realistically, how many people are more close to their mother than their father.) Just saying that is the sign of subjugation is absolutely wrong. However, to claim that males get more rights is wrong, because we may get to stay out longer by ourselves longer but we still have cultural and religious restrictions upon us also. To say otherwise, is not truly putting your feet in our shows. We are also seen as trash by society if we commit these errors of faith, and if we do them then our chances of marriage and our families honor goes down the drain. Men are scrutinized as much as the females, and they also have their rules that they have to follow. While I would like to elaborate more, I feel like I could talk for hours, and so I will leave you all with this. Women are the keystone and the moral and ethical backbone for muslim society, and to say that this is oppression is wrong. You have merely been given the privilege and responsibility to truly affect people who should look up to you and you hold a family together. While I understand that this a great responsibility, we men are supposed to help you in your endeavors, and so it shows that you have a lot more say in things than you think. Besides we men try to avoid getting the women angry, hell hath no fury like a women’s scorn! =)
I feel that this debate is ridiculous. Its like arguing the nature. For example you cant say why one male flower can fertilize many female flowers, or its like saying why a lion can have many female lions. Men and woman are equal, but they are two different kinds of human. Men are made for certain things, and women are too. So men are supposed to work harder, take care of the women and pay for them, this is the role of the man. While women should take care of the man and the family in the other way, so they are supposed to rise and feed the babies and be doing the role of the women we know. The point here is the same point in criticizing the woman that dates more than one guy, because women role is to be depending on the man, so we can see the difference between a man having couple of women, and a woman having more than a man. In the end, they both are indirectly equal, they both have jobs and things to do in life, and even they were given the abilities that match their jobs in life. The writing is talking about the most general idea of men and women, there is men depend on women and there is women does a man job and vice versa. If women can understand this indirect equality and the roles they have in life, they can stop complaining about not being equal.
I believe that both men and women are equal. Not based on the same scale. So you find a woman being judged more heavily than men. That goes along with the fluidity concept of gender. It changes not only over time, but also from one culture to another and among different groups within one culture. If this discussion is meant to elaborate the double standard between genders in the Middle East then I would say there is no such thing as double standard because I believe that they are treated equally. Maybe some think that since they are not allowed to do certain things they are not equals. The woman are treated with so much respect that other cultures might not understand. Bottom line women have so many rights In the middle east, maybe even more than men when it comes to being respected among society. I know so many Americans would think that it sucks for women that they don’t have as much freedom, as they assume, and that they have to cover their faces. Well, that comes back to how our girls were raised based on mainly Islam and secondly on culture. So for other people that have not been raised in such way it might be different, but to the girls that were raised that way, they love it and they do it because they were taught that this is the way they should be.
Women were and are still treated differently from men all over the planet. What I find really contradictory are the women who ask for equality and then they moan and bitch when they are held to the same standards of a man. An example of that maybe seen in our small daily life activites or even in larger scale duties. Now, I know a lot of females who contradict theirs every single day demanding for equality and then asking for more. On the other hand I really respect the women who started the movement for women equality in things that make sense. The modern feminist movement started in the 1960’s, they started getting results by the 1970s. For example, in 1977 a group of eighty-eight women applied to work for the New York Fire Department, but surprisingly all the eighty-eight female applicants failed their examination and got refused. As a result, the women took the case to the federal court which resulted in the first victory for female movements by hiring more than half of the female applicants and by introducing a special and less physically demanding examination for females. This clearly shows that women aren’t as strong as males so a new examination was introduced for females to hold positions in a fire department. But now women in the west who got their full equality to men want back to the old days were women were sacred. So, based on what we are seeing here in the west, the same thing is going to occur in the middle east. Women will get to the equaity level and then ask for a different treatment.
Most guys in here are missing the point. I’m not trying to compare the role of a man to a woman's. I’m just trying to say that even though, in Islam, both genders are supposed to be treated equally when it comes to those issues discussed, they are not!
I can understand the points being made by both sides in the video and I know that every heated conversation we have is based on this topic.Even though like almost anything else that I've talked about things are different and somehow still quite similar back in Turkey. I know that because of religion in the Middle east girls are not as free as the boys. But I feel like the situation is similar in other cultures too. Yes it is not as harsh as it is in Middle East, but when you think about it woman are always bound by some sort of rules because certain situations might effect their repuation. Like dating example in the video, when I think about what I have seen so far both here and back in Turkey. If a guy dates a lot of girls he is called a ' player but if a girl does the same exact thing she is called a 'whore'. I can give an example from my personal experience too. For example, I was allowed to go to pubs or bars when I was 13 or 14 but most of my female friends were'nt allowed to come with us.It was the same for my sister she was always pissed off at my parents because they allowed me to do whatever I want when I was her age and there were a lot of rules that she had to follow. I guess it is not just reputation that is the concern of the parents but also safety because of the way that most societies are built it is always assumed that boys can take care of themselves but girls can't. Do I believe that it is true,probably not thinking about how much trouble I got in to when I was in highschool. I guess what I'm trying to say is the double standards between sexes is not just there in Islam but in every culture. The problem comes from these double standards are way more visible in muslim societies.
What is truly at the root of this double standard? Is it really that women are actually more valued? Is it a desire to maintain and perpetuate a patriarchal system by controlling the actions of women? How would the men having this conversation honestly feel if they were in the shoes of these women–would these men willingly trade their freedom if it meant that an inherently patriarchal system supposedly "valued" them more??
More importantly–does the western/feminist perspective in my questions devalue their validity in a middle east dialogue?
Your perspectives aren't devalued in this middle eastern dialogue because of the great influence the West has on the Middle East. The middle east has so much of the "western" essence and way of life. Also, feminism is evident in many Arab countries in the Middle East as most women now receive equal salaries and job opportunities as the men do. The concepts are there but they have different meanings when taken across borders.
I don't like the usage of the term "patriarchal system" because I believe it exists in all societies. There is always a man behind the lens dictating what women should look like on ads and whether or not the new female applicant will be accepted. In the US women fought sexism, phallocentrism and the heteronormative point of view to create a bit of themselves in society and the media. With political equality value is, for one reason or another, sacrificed. Western women receive equal opportunities but are strangely marginalized without being appreciated, objectified in the media and stripped of any special rights. Women In the Middle East are allowed to work and go through life in any manner they please as long as they do not harm their reputation that is automatically going to be linked to their current and future families. In a way women are the backbone of society, they reflect their family's values and education and are therefore expected to be so much more than just a replica of the working man. Their freedom does not hinge on being treated exactly like a man but on more realistic grounds.
Women and Men is as i believe a serious topic related to the middle was and the whole world. We saw discrimination, yet, that does not mean it's really discrimination. Why don't we think of it as a different perspective. Like in the middle east when a guy can do what ever he wants, yet a girl can't and if she don't obey the rules she might be threatened not to get married, however, why don't we as the guys said in the video that girls are protected and put on the highest level and gain the most respect because she's a woman, something precious in the middle east.
I believe back home woman can work now, go out, drive and even they are join the army in school, which technically means they have the same rights as guys.
Yet, people mixed between religion and traditions or let's say got a different understanding where they started to be hard on women. Therefore, of course women will feel the "racism" and say they are mistreated or not treated as men.
I honestly think both sides of the argument are true, yet, people's understanding of thing and aspects may change some ideas of how actually woman are treated in Islam.
Men and women being equal in almost everything here in the U.S made so many people think that is the case everywhere, however, this is not the case in most of the countries in the middle east. This comes from our religion first then from our culture. Also that does not mean that men have all the right and women do not as many people think, its just that men are responsible for their families and women are mostly responsible for raising the children and taking care of them. Most of the middle easterns are so protective about their women because they have the idea that if something happened this will bring the shame on the entire family. But still Women have all the right to work and earn money but this money goes to her not to the family not like men.
What Layan said is true somehow, that if the women did a mistake, it will become harder to her to get married not like men, which comes from the culture that we have been raised on not our religion. If it was based on religion they will be equal in that case.
I can fully understand the points that are being made in the video from both sides (guys and girls). I have a cousin who used to bug me because she wasn't allowed to get out as much since she's a girl, and she somehow made it my fault. So I can totally see that there are more strict rules on females than males especially in Saudi Arabia. It's like Omer said, girls don't have as much freedom. It might sound a little harsh but it's kind of true.
There's something I'd like to point out in response to what Layan said in the video. I do believe that a girl's reputation would be severely hurt when people know she's dating, but that doesn't mean that a guy can start dating and sleeping with other women because the rules don't apply to him. Guys have reputations too! A guy would also have a hard time getting married when he's 'caught' fooling around. Maybe it's different in different areas in the Middle East, but I can't see a guy getting away with it in Saudi Arabia. Unless of course only his immediate family found out and punished him secretly. I'm not trying to explain why would a girl be more 'subjected to judging' as Layan puts it, because honestly I don't have an explanation for that. All I'm saying is, maybe the scale through which people are judged is different for Muslim Arab guys and girls, but that doesn't mean that it does not exist for guys.
I think it is important for parents to actually care about what’s going on in their children’s lives. It’s an essential part of good parenting! Notice how I said “children’s lives” not just daughters lives or sons lives. Equal protectiveness and care for their well being is something that both sons and daughters need. But as discussed in this conversation, that is not the case. In reality in the Arab and/or Muslim community (or ANY community) women tend to have to deal with more attention and judgment from their family and peers.
I agree with what Ahmad said that in Islam woman are held at a higher standard and should be respected. I agree, I think all women deserve to be treated with respect. However, I don’t think this means that woman should be overly protected and subject to more judgment from society. Woman aren’t genetically predisposed to making more mistakes then men. Therefore, in my opinion there is no logical reason as to why woman should receive more attention, as if at any moment she is liable to do something scandalous. Regardless of one’s gender if a person wants to do something bad, they will do something bad.
Also, I would like to add that, yes, I am happy that my family cares about me and want to protect me. However, I do not think it is flattering that my parents are obviously more protective of me and my reputation then that of my brother. In fact I think it is very insulting. Im offended by the fact that society would be more critical of me dating a guy then they would of a man doing the very same thing.
Men are Free!! that's true in all aspects of life back in Middle East. They got to do whatever, and no blame is thrown upon them. In class, guys had an opinion regard this when they said that this inequality between two genders, and the protectiveness over women is out of respect, care, and how valuable women are. I was just wondering, if this was "the reason" behind this, does it mean that men do not deserve the same level of respect! Does it mean that they are not valued like women are!!
why won't it be an equal protectiveness?
As Nouf said,nowadays we can see women participating in everything, they're even joining men in the work field to help their men raising a family. So, why women are always subjected!
As I was reading the responses, I liked the opinion about parents, and their role in raising their children with the idea of "equal protectiveness."
To compare men and women in Islam is not right each have their own roles they play in society as well as in the house. So to compare the two according to the religion is not really fair, is like comparing a quarterback to a defensive back. They both have different roles one takes care of the offense while the other takes care of the defense, just like in Islam a man has certain obligations, and the women has others. I understood the point that the females were trying to get through to us males in that conversation, but it’s not a valid point. Women are more protected because they are a prized possession. They eventually have to get married and go to another house, the more respect they have the better marriage proposals they will tend to get. If a girl is known for hanging out to late with other males in any society she will be looked at with less respect, and the same goes for a male. Parents care more for their daughters because a lot of their respect depends on her acts with society, but when compared to a male he is looked upon as his own many times not refereed with the parents. When it comes to the way society looks at females it is more from the culture aspect and not the religious aspect. Even in India females are not allowed out after sometime even if they are with just their female friends because it looks bad in society. My point I am trying to get across is exactly what Ahmed said if a women is looked at with such respect and is being so protected why are you crying you should be happy.
when talking about the double standard or the differences between men and women in the middle east we just cannot compare whats going on in the states to the middle east in any way shape or form. The norm in the states is not the norm in the middle east. the way the culture interacts with individuals is different. I know that sometimes women are judged more heavily than men and i believe that's not right but its only because they are the focus of society. we have been taught since our childhood that women are the building block of society. it is stated many time in the Quran that women are to be treated with the highest respect. they are to be cared for. in marriage women are not expected to spend a single penny on their households. Now since this is all part of the Islamic religion which governs our day to day life in other words our culture. Thats why comparing different cultures is almost impossible. when we say freedom thats not necessarily talking about the same thing. going back to the video i know that women are judged more than men but not to the extent stated in the video. Dating as far as I know is not allowed in Islam because its is thought to be the road sin. so if my family is even suspicious of me going out with girls not even sleeping with them just going out with them on a date. I would be looked upon very badly and if the word spreads to th outside I might have a hard time getting married. but the thought that wouldn't do anything is very very unlikely.
This is a really tricky matter in which you must look at both the cultural and religious implications. You can use cultural implications to talk about the burqa (the whole body, face, everything else covered in black) and other such implications; but, you must acknowledge that some of the cultures of certain countries and regions have branched off of religion. True, it may be grounded in religion but some communities take and do things that are not truly in Islam. Subjugation is not taking lightly in Islam at all (unless to God) and it is seen that some cultures have forcefully subjugated certain females and people of lower class. Whether from debt bondage or gender discrimination, these are still ways in which Islam has prohibited taking liberties away. In certain regions, women aren’t allowed to pursue academic intentions. Islam never said that, it just said in the broad over-encompassing sense that you should gain knowledge even from China or the fringes of the world (obviously I’m paraphrasing). While we understand this cultural oppression, I understand that it is wrong and that should not be done.
However, when we begin to talk about Islam itself, then one can see that women are truly held to the higher standard. The Prophet (pbuh) himself said that the mother is the most important 3 times before the father. One is supposed to take care of the females and saying that women don’t need to be taken care of is absolute stupidity. Not that females are weak, it is just that there are forces that wish to harm females in this world and they need to be protected by them. (Why do women always walk with other people at night? Is it because of subjugation or protection in numbers? Also, the things that women learn and act like will definitely affect their children. Children’s first teachers are their mothers, and you can say whatever you want but the mother upon her own volition will always take good care of their children. This is a mother’s love. Tell it realistically, how many people are more close to their mother than their father.) Just saying that is the sign of subjugation is absolutely wrong. However, to claim that males get more rights is wrong, because we may get to stay out longer by ourselves longer but we still have cultural and religious restrictions upon us also. To say otherwise, is not truly putting your feet in our shows. We are also seen as trash by society if we commit these errors of faith, and if we do them then our chances of marriage and our families honor goes down the drain. Men are scrutinized as much as the females, and they also have their rules that they have to follow. While I would like to elaborate more, I feel like I could talk for hours, and so I will leave you all with this. Women are the keystone and the moral and ethical backbone for muslim society, and to say that this is oppression is wrong. You have merely been given the privilege and responsibility to truly affect people who should look up to you and you hold a family together. While I understand that this a great responsibility, we men are supposed to help you in your endeavors, and so it shows that you have a lot more say in things than you think. Besides we men try to avoid getting the women angry, hell hath no fury like a women’s scorn! =)
I feel that this debate is ridiculous. Its like arguing the nature. For example you cant say why one male flower can fertilize many female flowers, or its like saying why a lion can have many female lions. Men and woman are equal, but they are two different kinds of human. Men are made for certain things, and women are too. So men are supposed to work harder, take care of the women and pay for them, this is the role of the man. While women should take care of the man and the family in the other way, so they are supposed to rise and feed the babies and be doing the role of the women we know. The point here is the same point in criticizing the woman that dates more than one guy, because women role is to be depending on the man, so we can see the difference between a man having couple of women, and a woman having more than a man. In the end, they both are indirectly equal, they both have jobs and things to do in life, and even they were given the abilities that match their jobs in life. The writing is talking about the most general idea of men and women, there is men depend on women and there is women does a man job and vice versa. If women can understand this indirect equality and the roles they have in life, they can stop complaining about not being equal.
I believe that both men and women are equal. Not based on the same scale. So you find a woman being judged more heavily than men. That goes along with the fluidity concept of gender. It changes not only over time, but also from one culture to another and among different groups within one culture. If this discussion is meant to elaborate the double standard between genders in the Middle East then I would say there is no such thing as double standard because I believe that they are treated equally. Maybe some think that since they are not allowed to do certain things they are not equals. The woman are treated with so much respect that other cultures might not understand. Bottom line women have so many rights In the middle east, maybe even more than men when it comes to being respected among society. I know so many Americans would think that it sucks for women that they don’t have as much freedom, as they assume, and that they have to cover their faces. Well, that comes back to how our girls were raised based on mainly Islam and secondly on culture. So for other people that have not been raised in such way it might be different, but to the girls that were raised that way, they love it and they do it because they were taught that this is the way they should be.
Women were and are still treated differently from men all over the planet. What I find really contradictory are the women who ask for equality and then they moan and bitch when they are held to the same standards of a man. An example of that maybe seen in our small daily life activites or even in larger scale duties. Now, I know a lot of females who contradict theirs every single day demanding for equality and then asking for more. On the other hand I really respect the women who started the movement for women equality in things that make sense. The modern feminist movement started in the 1960’s, they started getting results by the 1970s. For example, in 1977 a group of eighty-eight women applied to work for the New York Fire Department, but surprisingly all the eighty-eight female applicants failed their examination and got refused. As a result, the women took the case to the federal court which resulted in the first victory for female movements by hiring more than half of the female applicants and by introducing a special and less physically demanding examination for females. This clearly shows that women aren’t as strong as males so a new examination was introduced for females to hold positions in a fire department. But now women in the west who got their full equality to men want back to the old days were women were sacred. So, based on what we are seeing here in the west, the same thing is going to occur in the middle east. Women will get to the equaity level and then ask for a different treatment.
Most guys in here are missing the point. I’m not trying to compare the role of a man to a woman's. I’m just trying to say that even though, in Islam, both genders are supposed to be treated equally when it comes to those issues discussed, they are not!
I can understand the points being made by both sides in the video and I know that every heated conversation we have is based on this topic.Even though like almost anything else that I've talked about things are different and somehow still quite similar back in Turkey. I know that because of religion in the Middle east girls are not as free as the boys. But I feel like the situation is similar in other cultures too. Yes it is not as harsh as it is in Middle East, but when you think about it woman are always bound by some sort of rules because certain situations might effect their repuation. Like dating example in the video, when I think about what I have seen so far both here and back in Turkey. If a guy dates a lot of girls he is called a ' player but if a girl does the same exact thing she is called a 'whore'. I can give an example from my personal experience too. For example, I was allowed to go to pubs or bars when I was 13 or 14 but most of my female friends were'nt allowed to come with us.It was the same for my sister she was always pissed off at my parents because they allowed me to do whatever I want when I was her age and there were a lot of rules that she had to follow. I guess it is not just reputation that is the concern of the parents but also safety because of the way that most societies are built it is always assumed that boys can take care of themselves but girls can't. Do I believe that it is true,probably not thinking about how much trouble I got in to when I was in highschool. I guess what I'm trying to say is the double standards between sexes is not just there in Islam but in every culture. The problem comes from these double standards are way more visible in muslim societies.