This might be one of the more inspiring stories I’ve read in years. And I say “inspiring” because it is only when the “tough on crime” crowd gets so clown-like that the American populace might finally see the absurdity of giving police, prosecutors, prison administrators and courts so much power.
What’s wild is that this “tough on crime” movement has been led by Republicans, the same people who claim to support small government. Really? You want small government? Then take away the gun, send the kid back to class, call the step father and make him take a gun safety class that he pays for, and then get on with life. Enough said…very simple. The kid (strike that…I mean “the child”) is a “suspect”? Unbelievable.
Article: “Florida boy drops loaded handgun inside pre-kindergarten class”
I think this story is absolutely ridiculous as far as actually arresting and detaining a kindergartener for having a gun. I understand if its protocol or whatever for law enforcement officials but this is an outrageous case. I would totally understand sending the kid home and having his parents taken to the police station, but can anyone imagine the call his parents received saying to come get him at the police station? His age is right around the time I think most kids would begin to learn right from wrong in public situations because they are going to school and interacting with other people, but there is no way this kid knew that bringing a gun to school was definitely a bad idea. Considering a 5 year old a suspect is also absurd. The kid can't write his own name legibly, there is no way he can be considered a criminal.
The officer who talked with the kid basically put up the argument that the kid was pretty intelligent and understood the questions they asked him, but the officer was obviously making these remarks in comparison with what he thought a normal five year old would be able to communicate, not an adult criminal that can put together a legitimate story for investigators. If anything, the kid's parents definitely are to blame for this incident, and it's a shame that the police didn't look into prosecuting the stepfather for having a weapon openly accessible to anyone.
The 5 year old child actually being stated as a “suspect” is completely ridiculous. I agree that this is a serious situation and should be handled as such, but I totally disagree that the fault should be pointed at the innocent child who probably thought it was just a toy. I agree the situation should be handled the way Sam had suggested. The parent who had allowed his child to have access to the loaded gun should take a guns safety class that he pays for and just send the child back to class. Suspending the child took the situation to extreme measures. Everyone knew that there was no way the child’s actual intention was to put any one in harm’s way, so why was the situation treated as such? It just blows my mind. Unbelievable . The situation just goes on to show how rational people really are along with social systems.
The reason why the situation treated the child as a suspect is because of the rules and laws which state how criminals should be punished in circumstances where an individual brings a loaded gun to school. So prosecutors looked at the situation and handled it the way they would treat any other criminal case and obeyed the rules. This proves my point that people and social systems are rational. Systems want stability and in order to have stability in systems, rules must be enforced and never changed. Every situation has to be treated the same with no exceptions. If people had allowed exceptions in situations than social systems will not be stable and rules would constantly be bent leading to destruction and chaos. So to avoid difficult measures, rules are never bent no matter what the circumstances of the situation are.
In conclusion, after the discussion in class about how social systems and people are rational it now completely makes sense to me as to why the prosecutors labeled the child as a suspect in the situation. They couldn’t bend the rules. Rules are created to control everything so that everything operates smoothly. If the rules were bent, there will be total chaos and destruction. So nothing is an exception in any situation.
The fact that this child was viewed as a “suspect” in this situation is ridiculous. The police should have taken him out of class, sent him home for the day, and spent their time talking to his parents about how the gun got into his possession in the first place. There is no way that a 5 year-old is conscious of what he is doing in that situation. He may even been too young to know what a gun is or what it does because, depending on his parents, he has probably never even seen a movie that has gun violence in it. This child should not have been suspended and restricted from being on school grounds when there is no evidence that he had any idea what he was doing.
It is also difficult to believe that there is a legitimate investigation pending in this case. I do not think that any real crime was committed in this situation. The parents should just be punished for having their gun where the child could access it. They should also both be forced to attend some form of gun safety class so that they are more educated about where to keep their gun so that their child cannot get his hands on it again. No one got hurt, the gun did not go off, and there was clearly no threat involved. Therefore the entire thing was so blown out of proportion by the police.
The part of this “Americans Gone Wild” piece I take the biggest issue with is that in the intro to the article it says to blame the “‘tough on crime’ movement has been led by Republicans, the same people who claim to support small government.” This has nothing to do with political parties. This has to do with police in this Florida town not knowing how to handle this situation and trying to use the same rules on a child that would apply to an adult. Those policemen are almost undoubtedly from both sides of the political spectrum so it is very unfair to try to place blame on the Republican Party.
For police to even have to say that “have no indication that the boy made any threats or showed the weapon to anyone during his 30 to 45 minutes in school before the incident” is absolutely insane. This young boy obviously did not have any intension of hurting anyone. It is crazy to think of this young boy as a suspect. However, policies are put in place for a reason. Society is much more regulated and runs more smoothly with necessary rules and protocols.
While the rules are set in place for a reason, suspending this boy seems insane and irrational. In reality, it is unfortunately the only rational consequence because of the way the rules are set in place. If they didn’t punish him, the next person in a slightly similar situation would be able to argue that this boy was not correctly punished, so he should not be either.
This situation is actually more common than many people might think. Just this week in the news, a 7-year-old was charged for bringing a toy Nerf gun to school in New Jersey. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41393200) Additionally, a girl from my high school was suspended when we were in 10th grade. She was getting annoyed that the girl behind her was tapping her foot on the back of the desk. The girl angrily turned around and stabbed the other girl with a pencil.
While I originally thought it was utterly insane to arrest or suspend this child, I now understand the reasoning behind the punishment. Laws are made to keep order. Exceptions simply cannot occur for the society to run smoothly. The more clearly that different conduct codes are written, the more straightforward the punishments will be. Some say that these controversial items, such as toy guns, should automatically be placed on the list of things that cannot be brought to school. This file or directory could include items such as toy guns, paper drawings of guns, pocket knives, and even plastic silverware in some schools. While this sounds like a good solution to keep adding controversial items to the list as they appear in the school, what are officials supposed to do when the “weapon” is more commonly a primary writing utensil?
The fact that a five year old is being blamed and seen as a threat for having a handgun at school is absolutely absurd. Most five year olds do not have the knowledge to understand how dangerous a gun is and what the consequences could be for having one. Most children, especially boys, show an interest in guns and other forms of weaponry due to television and other influences. In addition, most young children own toy guns or water guns. A five year old would not have the ability to differentiate a toy gun from a real gun. In fact, they may not even know what a real gun is capable of doing if they have not seen one being used. In this case, exposing the five-year-old boy to a real gun could be extremely dangerous. If he had thought that only water or a soft ball would shoot out of the gun, he may have pulled the trigger without second guessing himself. For these reasons, the stepfather should most certainly take the blame and be punished with the consequences that his stepson has. I believe that this specific situation represents a form of group think. Because cases like this, where a student has brought a gun to school, usually ends up with that student causing some sort of damage to the student body, any form would create exact responses. This case differs greatly, however, because of the young age of the student. He does not know what the gun is capable of doing, and most probably did not go to school with the gun having intentions to shoot anyone. It is extremely difficult for one individual to step outside the box and admit that this is not the young boys fault. Instead, they all follow what everyone else is doing, as to not stand out. Instead of the police and the media focusing on the fact that a five year old brought a gun to school, I think they should center the story on the fact that the boy was exposed to a dangerous weapon. The parents should be regretful and embarrassed that this incident occurred, and take complete responsibility for it.
This news does not cease to amaze me. A five year old getting suspended over taking a gun to school? It is not possible for a five year old to know that what he was doing was wrong, why should he be punished? Kids are curious, they see something that catches their attention they are more than likely going to pick it up. Especially if they have never been told that it can cause a lot of harm. I don’t agree with this child being suspended.
However, I do feel that the parents of this child need to be the ones receiving a punishment. Why would they leave a gun there, unattended? That child could have, unwillingly, killed himself or a classmate. Which is why the parents should be the ones receiving the punishment. If they are irresponsible enough to leave a gun available to a five year old, how responsible as parents are they really being? They should be revoked the rights to own a gun, or have to take some type of safety course. I feel like this would be a more reasonable way of dealing with this case, and cases like this.
In class a person asked, if the child had shot someone would it be the same case? In my opinion it would. The child is obviously learning from what he exposed to, more likely, the T.V or what his parents are teaching him. This is also on the parents not on the child. I can’t find it in me to believe that a child would do such a thing so why should he be punished. If a violent behavior is noticed in this child the, yes he should receive help or treatment, he should be thought, not punished.
I do understand the no tolerance policy that schools have; however, I feel that they are sometimes blowing off proportion. Instead of suspending the kid, they should be thought that it is wrong and why, because in the end, what kid does not like to not have to go to school. This case seems to have been handled in an inappropriate matter and I really hope they will learn from this and know how to handle it in another situation.
I have a very vivid memory of being in fifth grade, at maybe the end or the beginning of the school, but at some point where it still felt like summer, and sitting outside on our front porch, and borrowing a lighter from my dad to light a citronella candle. The next day I went to school and realized it was still in my pocket, and spent the entire day absolutely terrified that someone would find it, or that it would fall out, and I would be suspended. That is crazy. This boy being suspended because he had an object that he did not understand let alone know how to use, is sort of crazy. I understand the explanation of it, that the rules themselves are rational. After all, if a fourteen year old carried a gun to school, he or she should probably be held responsible. But, as a small child, it seems slightly ridiculous to be penalized for something you don’t understand.
I feel like things work a lot better in smaller towns where rules do not have to be so stringent. You get away with a lot more in an area where you know a child’s parents, or family and friends. I can almost guarantee if this had happened at my school (my town’s population is 3000), this child would not have been in that kind of trouble. When we allow people flexibility within their rules, then schools and other systems like it are able to operate in a more functioning and proper manner.
This is an extremely unfortunate situation. This child is probably very confused about what happened to him, and it’s likely that this suspension will follow him throughout the rest of his academic career, and for what? Because his stepfather didn’t properly secure his weapon? It seems to me that even if the rule was rational because it was created to protect students, this school should be designed so that irrational results can be avoided. Hopefully this school will change its policy so that a situation like this does not occur again.
The idea of punishing a child for mistakenly bringing in a firearm that he found in the back seat of his Fathers car is outrageous. Also the idea of punishing the child for such an act not even knowing what he is doing is quite out of hand. For the parents who are “tough on crime”, they should take a look at themselves and see that they are trying to punish a five year old child for a crime that he technically he didn’t even know existed. Punishment for this crime would be harsh, cruel, and completely unnecessary. If a five year old would have enough deductive reasoning he would be able to see the seriousness of the situation and therefore take more time in concealing the weapon. He could have seen one on TV or something and thought that it would be ok, but he really has no idea. The idea of punishing the child is ridiculous, but I think that the Father should be required to attend some safety classes and be taught how to secure a firearm. Being an experienced hunter having good gun safety is one of the most important aspects of people able to handle a firearm because a number of things could happen while handling a firearm. Unthinkable things that could happen for no reason, even though if a experienced person is holding the gun. I do not think that the child should be punished at all. Anyone that thinks he should be punished takes things a little bit to seriously. Lighten up and take a look at what’s important in life. A child handling a firearm is a dangerous thing, especially at this age, but the realization that this child has no idea even how to use a firearm is important. The adult needs to be closely looked after that he is taking the required gun course safety classes. The fact that there is a police investigation going on for the crime of a five year old child is also crazy. Even that it could “take months” is a little extensive. Grow up, and look at what’s important.
I think this article is very intriguing. So many people are making such a huge deal about a five year old bringing a gun to school, when in reality he probably didn’t mean to do that at all. He found the gun in the back of his father’s car, and he probably just thought it was a toy gun and took it for fun. I think its weird that the gun was fully loaded, who leaves a fully loaded gun in the back of their car with their child sitting right next to it. I don’t blame the five-year-old boy at all. His father left it there and he saw it and took it. The five year old had every right to take the gun, he didn’t know any better at all. If it’s in his father’s car he probably thought it was okay to take, he wasn’t taught any better than that. The invisible strings here show he must’ve been brought up in a household where the idea of guns was okay, whether it be his father owning guns or him playing video games that involve guns. Thank god this child didn’t shoot the gun in class because then this story would have blown up even more. I think its so shocking that they took the five-year-old child to jail, who does that? Obviously the child didn’t have any intentions on using the gun otherwise he would have. Taking a five year old to jail is a little too much. I wonder what the other kids in the class were thinking; having a five year old child in your class being taken to jail definitely leaves an impact. They’re going to always remember that when they’re older, and maybe the fact that this happened will provoke them to never handle a gun because its such a traumatizing experience. Also, I wonder how the parents felt after this happened. They definitely wont be leaving guns lying around the house or car,that was just a dumb move on their part seeing as they’re obviously not enforcing any rules on the gun. Overall, I don’t believe it’s the five-year-old’s fault at all, and he definitely should not have been taken to jail.
"This is not the child's fault" those were the words of the superintendent of the school district. So then why was the child brought out in handcuffs then? If it wasn’t his fault why was the need to arrest a completely harmless five year old? The actions of the people in this country are baffling. And day by day, they get worse and worse, more and more stupid. But back to the topic at hand, children and weapons. A child under the age of five should in no reason be near a loaded weapon, without proper supervision. Yes I am a firm believer in weapons, but proper, responsible, and safe use of them. You can’t let your loaded small caliber pistol lay in front of the wandering and curious mind of a toddler. Of course if he sees something shiny, he is going to pick it up, basic kids for you. In today’s world though, electronics and the age of users creeps lower and lower, with children not much older than this child playing video games, and possibly even violent games at that. So if the child had known what that weapon was, and what it could do, and if “thought” he was playing his video game, who knows what he could have done? Possibly thinking it’s his game he could have pointed it at another student and pulled the trigger, killing him on the spot. Now, when an event like this happens, what’s the repercussions of this child’s actions? This brings up the other story in class that we talked about, in that a young child brought in a gun and shot another student with it. So what happens to these kids? A slap on the wrist and telling them that guns are bad, and let them go back and play with the other students? In my mind no, you can’t do that because, what about that child’s mother who is now grieving over the loss of her son, because some parent wasn’t thinking correctly and left out his gun on the back seat of the car within reach of his/her child. There has to be a some kind of severity that isn’t a slap on the behind, because now while one child is back playing in the playground, one is being buried six feet under.
The schools’ action that came after this boy brought the gun to school is like a giant contradiction. The police, that man being interviewed at the end of the clip, and school officials all said the boy is not at fault, but rather the adult who carelessly left the gun where the boy could access it and put it in his pocket. Unless he is a child prodigy/genius, the boy didn’t know any better. He had no idea what he was doing, or that he was putting himself, classmates, and the teacher at possible risk. But let’s suspend him anyway.
Yeah, guns are a serious problem as they relate to schools and shootings, I’m not trying to argue that at all (I actually believe few citizens should have the right to own a gun, but it’s our second amendment so there is no reason for me to even begin to argue that). I am not saying schools should not take these occurrences seriously – look at Columbine, Virginia Tech, and even the shootings that happened here at Penn State. But there is a giant difference between those cases and this one. Those high school students and college students knew what they were doing. This FIVE YEAR OLD had no idea. He probably didn’t even know what a gun was, not to mention the potential damage he could do. The normal impulse most of us will have, including myself, probably goes along these lines: the fact that the police are even “investigating” this is beyond stupid.
But (playing the devil’s advocate here), don’t they have to? After all, it is their job to investigate any and every crime that comes along. What if, when the gun fell out of the boy’s pocket, it somehow went off and killed another kid. Surely we would want the police to be involved then. Most of us wouldn’t say “send the kid to jail” but we would all probably have a different view on the issue. Sam suggests to make the stepfather take a class on gun safety, so he can learn how to keep the gun safely locked away from his stepson. But if someone had been hurt or killed, would the stepfather be at fault? He didn’t give the gun to the child, but nonetheless someone was hurt, and it was his irresponsibility that caused it. Too often we as human beings neglect to be rational when thinking about these kinds of things, and automatically jump at finding someone to blame.
I understand that no 5 year old has the capability to understand what harm can be done with a gun but when do we start to hold children responsible. Yes, in this situation the child is not responsible but there is a point in adolescents where we have to actually hold the child responsible. In this case I believe the step father should be held responsible. He himself could have been killed if the child had decided to play with the gun as soon as he found it. Or what if the child had decided to turn the gun on himself? This situation could have been way worse then what it actually was.
As for the teacher I think she did what she thought was right. I think that it was a little much to take the child to jail but yes, something had to be done to show the child that playing with guns or even having them is very dangerous. Yes, five year olds are cute and harmless, we think, but what if he would have killed someone. Would he have been cute then? No, then someone would want to send this child to jail. No one knows when a child should be held responsible for their actions because different people live different lives.
part 1
I am from a neighborhood where at a young age a child knows that a gun can kill. Myself, and others have experienced crime and violence at a young age so I mind is very much aware of the dangers that comes with weapons. Some of us shy away from that lifestyle while others decide to get involved in it.
Some of the other students say just to let the child go and not explain anything, not explain why he’s in trouble but this child has to understand that he was two seconds away from killing someone. The step father is responsible and needs to be dealt with but I feel the class needs to understand that some five year olds don’t understand what a gun can do but some do. It all depends on how someone grows up…….
part 2
I think I would have to agree with this case. I believe that this kid that brought in the gun really didn’t know what he was doing was wrong. He didn’t understand the consequences of bringing a gun to school because he’s only five. There are few kids at the age of five that understand that guns can kill. I also believe that law enforcers should reprimand the father rather than the child. The father was the one that left a loaded gun in his car by the way. Along with punishing the irresponsible father law enforcement should also make sure that the boy understands that bringing weapons to school is not ok. Teachers and law enforcement could also go a step further and make sure the kids in the school also know that weapons in school are not ok. On the other hand I have seen a story where a ten year old kid stole his grandmothers car drove it around crashing into stuff then drove it back home on the rims.
This kid clearly knew what he was doing was wrong. This kid should be punished. To me it all depends on the situation. There are kids and people out there that make honest mistakes but there are also some out there that know what they are doing and should be held accountable for their actions no matter what age they are. I feel that people should be held accountable for their actions yet I also feel that there are certain situations that need to be dealt with in special ways. To me it’s a very thin grey line like we talked about in class, how can you tell if a person really understands the consequences of their actions and at what age should kids be charged as adults. Should we just say screw it and treat everyone as an adult. I think not I think we need to take more time and take a step back and really look into things. We need to be more understanding yet also be firm. Though some cases are very easy to come to conclusions others might be a little bit more difficult.
I am well aware that authorities took the specific actions they did because there is indeed a system in place. However, each system is corrupt in some way shape or form and if that has yet to be discovered, it soon will be. I agree with the fact that the 5 year old child is not to blame. However, how exactly did they go about the situation right after it happened? Did they call the child's parents first? Probably not. Did they scold the child for his possession of this 22 caliber gun? Perhaps. The actions that were taken directly after the gun was found were not specified in this article. Therefore, it is quite possible that the authorities attempted to scare the young child and teach him his lesson before the parents arrived. I do believe that this is a very inhumane way to go about dealing with the situation. Like we discussed in class, not each decision one makes is completely free and in this case (a five year old with a gun) his freedom of decision is even more narrow. Sure, he picked up the gun from his stepfathers car floor. However, did he know what it was? Did he intentionally bring it into school with the thoughts of "I am going to shoot up this place?" Or was the child just curious, and thought maybe it looked cool, or maybe the color was appareling to his eye. What is true is that nothing happened involving any threats, or means of harm with the child and the gun. I can gather from that that the child had no ill intentions when he brought that gun into school.
I think the proper precautions that should have been taken were to immediately contact the parents of the child then once the parents had arrived, call the police. The child should have the comfort of knowing that he intentionally did nothing wrong, and should be in the presence of his parents while being told so. I am sure this was quite a frightening experience for the child, and he did nothing to deserve this. Indeed, having this occur, the child should now become aware of the dangers in carrying around a 22 caliber gun around. I think he should be instructed to go to a gun awareness class with his parents for comfort, and have the stepfather pay for it (Just like Sam had mentioned). By doing this you are teaching both the family and the child a valuable lesson.
Before we had thoroughly discussed this issue in class, I guess my point of view on this issue is the same as majority of the commenters here; it is absolutely irrational to suspend a five-year old child from school simply by bringing a loaded gun to school, where he obviously had no idea it was a real gun. It is also completely irrelevant to actually accuse the five-year old child of actually having an intention to hurt someone in school with the gun. The one that should be held responsible is definitely the child's parents, as they should have been more careful not to leave dangerous weapons in the house or areas that a child could gain access to it.
However, just like what Sam has said in class, these irrational rules that are being conducted are actually based on rational things. For example, the danger of bringing a weapon to school and immediately arresting the person who brings weapon to schools with the intention to hurt others would definitely be agreed upon that such action is absolutely necessary for everyone's safety. Such rules makes sense, where we are more concerned of the safety of other students and be able to arrest the person who could hurt others with the gun he or she brought before it is too late. Hence, the arrest and suspension of the 5-year old child. It may seem absurd and irrational that such a law is imposed onto a little child, but the law is based on rational ideology, and no one should be exempted from it for safety reasons. Of course, the police would not throw the little child in jail for this, but to execute the protocols and laws at its very base would at least assure the society that the authorities are indeed doing their job.
Other than that, questions would be raised and the school would be questioned if they did not suspend the child from school. Parents would think that the school does not take such an incident seriously, and the lives of their children in the school are not guaranteed to be safe if the school has such loose rules and regulations.
Hence, I agree that the suspension and arrest of the child might be irrational and absurd as the child is obviously innocent, but when we take a step back and look at the bigger picture, these actions must be done in order to if I may say, maintain the credibility and the trust of the society towards the school and authorities.
I consider myself a conservative thinker. Although I don’t like to get wrapped up in politics (since I consider politics to often undermine the free thought process), I understand my obligation as an American citizen to try and be somewhat politically knowledgeable and involved. I do know that the general consensus among true conservative thinkers in a situation like this would be to not get the police as involved as they were. It’s obvious that a 5-year old boy shouldn’t get arrested, because his understandings of his actions are far too limited to even know what he did. The liberal thinker would say, “This is what happens when you let people try to control themselves and the things around them.” When things like this happen, it gives liberal thinkers the right to say “There need to be stricter gun laws and more governmental control,” because by no means should a 5-year old come into possession of a lethal weapon. Regardless, if the boy accidentally shot another young child and killed him, there would be a political uproar in the gun control community.
Can conservative thought punish someone enough to help prevent accidents like this? Can liberal thought control someone enough to make sure something like this would have never happened? It’s impossible to say how to efficiently handle situations like these. Clearly, the conservative is right in saying it’s wrong to arrest a five year old child and hold him suspect to knowledgably harmful behavior. However, the liberal is right in saying this should never have happened, and it is an individual’s failure to control his possessions that led to the occurrence.
Obviously, the stepfather should have been held accountable, given fines, and put through a gun education class instead of punishing the child. But, as I stated earlier, if the child was to mistakenly take the life of a classmate, things may have been different. Who would be held accountable, if life was lost? It wouldn’t be the child, because it is unlawful to charge someone so young with any crime. It wouldn’t be the father, because he didn’t pull the trigger. In our system, one in which conservative and liberal thought are often unable to cooperate, we fail in many situations to both control people safely while allowing them freedom.
A child with a loaded weapon is a dangerous thought. I cannot began to recall the countless times I've picked up a stick, toy or used my own imagination that I was using a gun to shoot at my friends. This child could have very easily taken the weapon out during recess and wanted to play with another toy. This situation could have been much worse, and I am glad that the teacher took notice of the weapon before any real trouble aroused.
That being said, I would have to disagree with Sam's opinion on the matter. Certainly this child isn't responsible for finding the gun and bringing it to class, but the best way to get a message across is to make a bold statement. The local government and school board's questionable reaction to this situation was the appropriate response. In order to assure the safety of children in schools, we must bring awareness of dangers such as weapons or drugs. When a 5 year old child brings a loaded hand gun into school, that is kind of a big deal. Issuing a full police report and having close media coverage will send a message to parents watching the video that children don't always know what they're doing, and that it is there job to ensure they are aware of dangers they are exposed to. The problem that needs to be addressed is the negligence of his parents. His step father should keep his firearms well out of reach of children, and be more attentive to what his child is doing. I believe that the resolution to the problem would be to award the step father with gun safety classes, and a nice fine that he won't soon forget.
Perhaps the problem isn't with the parents, but rather with guns in general. I personally believe that we, as a society, can live together without weapons. However, I do not want to see the day that we as a society begins to take steps towards this goal because it will only mean more government intervention, and less freedom for us.